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[Booksmasher]

Again, you're wrong. I know for a fact that in places like Afghanistan, in certain instances women have absolutely no choice in the husbands they will have to marry. Your problem is you think Islam is one thing. An extremely narrow view that doesn't hold up under the most basic scrutiny.

This is the problem with most of you. You see some stupid stuff on tv and you think "Aah so tháts Islam huh?". What does some stupid family in Afghanistan has to do with the Islamic teachings?

 

[Peli]

No, where did I say that? You should learn english mate, or stop making stuff up.



If youre a drinker, something is very very wrong with his Islam. He could still be muslim, but he has very very weak faith. Nobody in the muslim community considers that guy a practising muslim, even if he shows you he prays.



Again, making stuff up and strawmanning. When did I said that? Nobody is perfect. But the people you are talking about are considered non-practising muslims.

I'm not making anything up. I asked you a question.

No true scotsman. That person would be a practicing muslim who is struggling with particular sin/pleasures. You can be a muslim that drinks every day but pray five times a day. That's not unimaginable as you're making it. You're making it sound like well if he can't stop drinking, he won't have the discipline to pray five times a day. I can tell you that's not true. Some people just struggle with addiction.

If a muslim is having premarital sex and has it often, no one is saying that person isn't a practicing muslim. People would say the premarital sex is a sin. That's it. Same with alcoholism.

Do you have premarital sex? Would most muslims consider you non practicing muslim?

 

[Booksmasher]

I mean, yeah they have the power to divorce, but the man holds the power of the family and the wealth should they divorce in a non-western country. In the caucaus, you can divorce but the man gets the kids.

But thats not what is supposed to be done within the islamic sharia. Again, bring up some stuff what some muslims do in their culture, which is opposed to islam.

In some countries and cultures, they practice Triple Talaq marriages.

You see, you doing it again. Keep cultural practises outside of islam my friend. Dont mix them. Triple talaq on the spot is not islamic, it just counts as 1 talaq.

 

[The Chosen]

I'm not making anything up. I asked you a question.

No true scotsman. That person would be a practicing muslim who is struggling with particular sin/pleasures. You can be a muslim that drinks every day but pray five times a day. That's not unimaginable as you're making it. You're making it sound like well if he can't stop drinking, he won't have the discipline to pray five times a day. I can tell you that's not true. Some people just struggle with addiction.

If a muslim is having premarital sex and has it often, no one is saying that person isn't a practicing muslim. People would say the premarital sex is a sin. That's it. Same with alcoholism.

Do you have premarital sex? Would most muslims consider you non practicing muslim?

I think it comes from the fact that Islamic belief is absolute and there’s *almost* no real room for interpretation for most laws

 

[shoshaf]

This is the problem with most of you. You see some stupid stuff on tv and you think "Aah so tháts Islam huh?". What does some stupid family in Afghanistan has to do with the Islamic teachings?

No the problem with people like you is you think your version Islam is the only true way to practice Islam. A idiotic, and narrow view. All of my examples were given through my own life experiences, I wouldn’t have used the example of Afghanistan if I weren’t Afghan myself.

 

[Booksmasher]

You can be a muslim that drinks every day but pray five times a day.

A muslim who drinks we consider him still muslim ofcourse. But he has very very weak faith. We consider him a non practicing muslim.

That's not unimaginable as you're making it. You're making it sound like well if he can't stop drinking, he won't have the discipline to pray five times a day.

Ive been muslim all my life, and lived in muslim communities my whole life, and have NEVER known an alcoholic muslim maintaining the 5 daily prayers. I mostly see them at Eidul Fitr only, occasional friday. So...

If a muslim is having premarital sex and has it often, no one is saying that person isn't a practicing muslim. People would say the premarital sex is a sin. That's it. Same with alcoholism.

You are totally wrong here. Any major sin done openly by the muslim, my community considers him very weak.

 

[Booksmasher]

No the problem with people like you is you think your version Islam is the only true way to practice Islam. A idiotic, and narrow view. All of my examples were given through my own life experiences, I wouldn’t have used the example of Afghanistan if I weren’t Afghan myself.

You should bring text from Islamic sources, not what some people in afghanistan do.

 

[Peli]

But thats not what is supposed to be done within the islamic sharia. Again, bring up some stuff what some muslims do in their culture, which is opposed to islam.



You see, you doing it again. Keep cultural practises outside of islam my friend. Dont mix them. Triple talaq on the spot is not islamic, it just counts as 1 talaq.

It depends on the islamic school of thought and jurisprudence of that region or culture. To say or suggest other Islamic traditions aren't islamic because they don't subscribe to your level of jurisprudence would be incorrect. I don't know your school of thought, but India for example muslim marriages are governed by Hanafi school of thought and Hanafi scholars find basis for triple talaq marriages. If they find basis for it, Who am I or you to say its wrong? I'm sure they have scholars going back thousands of years that did tasfirs on this thing.

 

[Beherit]

I'm suggesting all religions are a crock of shit and have done more harm than good. I'm not exactly sure who Niche is, any chance you're talking about Nietzsche? If it is indeed the former then no I can't say I have read anything by Niche, and if you meant the latter no offence but I'm guessing you haven't.

without religion u end up with nihilism and self destruction. Best example are the nazies.

 

[Peli]

A muslim who drinks we consider him still muslim ofcourse. But he has very very weak faith. We consider him a non practicing muslim.



Ive been muslim all my life, and lived in muslim communities my whole life, and have NEVER known an alcoholic muslim maintaining the 5 daily prayers. I mostly see them at Eidul Fitr only, occasional friday. So...




You are totally wrong here. Any major sin done openly by the muslim, my community considers him very weak.

You didn't fully answer my question. Do you do premarital sex? Are you considered a practicing muslim if you have premartial sex? You brought up the "no real muslim would do this" type of no scotsmen. Fair enough you can consider them weak, but would you say they are not practicing muslims?

 

[Booksmasher]

It depends on the islamic school of thought and jurisprudence of that region or culture. To say or suggest other Islamic traditions aren't islamic because they don't subscribe to your level of jurisprudence would be incorrect. I don't know your school of thought, but India for example muslim marriages are governed by Hanafi school of thought and Hanafi scholars find basis for triple talaq marriages. If they find basis for it, Who am I or you to say its wrong? I'm sure they have scholars going back thousands of years that did tasfirs on this thing.

Sorry brother, the truth is, alot of what madhhab Hanafi teaches has been corrected by the other overwhelming bulk of scholars from the other madhaahib. But the most problematic part of muslims in India is not even the hanafi madhhab part but their aqidah part. Like Brelwiyyah and other Sufi stuff which has no basis in Islamic texts.

 

[Peli]

No the problem with people like you is you think your version Islam is the only true way to practice Islam. A idiotic, and narrow view. All of my examples were given through my own life experiences, I wouldn’t have used the example of Afghanistan if I weren’t Afghan myself.

Exactly. He thinks his islam is the only way. There are no four major schools of islamic thought, no debate among scholars. In his world, the scholars agree, there's one school of thought and jurisprudence.

 

[Booksmasher]

You didn't fully answer my question. Do you do premarital sex? Are you considered a practicing muslim if you have premartial sex? You brought up the "no real muslim would do this" type of no scotsmen. Fair enough you can consider them weak, but would you say they are not practicing muslims?

Yes ofcourse people who do pre marital sex are weak. Same stuff, it wasnembedded in my response, its a major sin. No ive never done it (no idea what my sex life has to do with this discussion)

 

[Peli]

without religion u end up with nihilism and self destruction. Best example are the nazies.

Ain't that some BS. Weren't the nazi's christians? Hitler seem to evoke Christianity when he had a chance.

Atheism and Agnosticism have been here just as long as belief. All sides seem to be doing okay.

 

[Peli]

Yes ofcourse people who do pre marital sex are weak. Same stuff, it wasnembedded in my response, its a major sin. No ive never done it (no idea what my sex life has to do with this discussion)

Again, I didn't ask you if they were weak. I asked if they were considered nonpracticing.

I accept your answer they are weak. I want to know if they're considered nonpracticing among muslims in your country/region

 

[Booksmasher]

Exactly. He thinks his islam is the only way. There are no four major schools of islamic thought, no debate among scholars. In his world, the scholars agree, there's one school of thought and jurisprudence.

Youve just lied and made stuff up here. I know what you are. You are just a silly liberal muslim who wants to disguise every clearcut sin under "ikhtilaf by scholars"...man dont waste my time.

 

[Booksmasher]

Again, I didn't ask you if they were weak. I asked if they were considered nonpracticing.

I accept your answer they are weak. I want to know if they're considered nonpracticing among muslims in your country/region

Yes weak or non practising I mean the same.

 

[Peli]

Youve just lied and made stuff up here. I know what you are. You are just a silly liberal muslim who wants to disguise every clearcut sin under "ikhtilaf by scholars"...man dont waste my time.

LOL. I'm not even muslim man. Out of respect of the role models I looked up to, I looked into it. I decided it wasn't for me.

But nice try.

 

[Peli]

Yes weak or non practising I mean the same.

Ok, well you're consistent in that regard. I'll give you that. I don't believe you, but I'll give you that. I think muslims would look at someone having premarital sex different than someone drinking or eating pork. Why? because I've seen it. lol. Your region may not subscribe to that. That's fair.

 

[Booksmasher]

LOL. I'm not even muslim man. Out of respect of the role models I look up to, I looked into it. I decided it wasn't for me.

But nice try.

Well if you are not, now you know there are plenty liberal muslims who talk exactly like you because they want to be like you.