how many people try to make people miss

Discussion in 'Standup Technique' started by devante, Jun 30, 2010.

  1. devante

    devante Silver Belt

    Joined:
    May 29, 2005
    Messages:
    12,709
    Likes Received:
    484
    Location:
    satx
    i ask this question because its something i haven't seen alot of when people spar, especially among the mma crowd; most people try to close the distance, try to get off alot of shots, try to apply pressure or try to hit you. But many people do NOT try to make you miss, whether its slipping, catching, blocking, rolling w/or stepping off of shots; i know i used a general term for a myriad of different approaches/techniques.

    why do you think this is and do you agree w/the emphasis on not actively seeking to not get hit clean often or at all or showing enough defense to limit your opp opportunities to even attempt offense; as we all know defense is more than just defending the strike, its controlling the distance, providing movements, giving angles and being defensively aware enough that you opp hesitates in letting the strikes fly or has to work to create openings/etc.

    i had recently sparred a kyokushin guy, and a few months ago another karate type and some mma types (mt-kb-boxing); an many of them say they enjoyed working w/me because i actively try to keep from getting hit, not in a fearful manner. But making people work to get their offense off or land on me; as one guy said everyone is intent on landing and will eat shots to land theirs, so it takes away from your diversity and strategy/tech because these guys aren't making you work offensively because they make themselves available to be hit because a)their defense is lacking or b)they are so intent on getting their offense off.

    its not the first time i heard this, so i figured i would pose the question; also i have had many convos w/too defensive about having the mindset of not getting hit, and how that impacts your ability to get away from/defend attacks. Not to mention it impacts your dedication to the process of not getting hit, once you just accept your gonna regardless; you stop actively trying not to get hit, i.e. paying attention to defense. Basically what happened to guys who fought machida or mayweather, half the reason they get picked apart is because they come in w/the mindset of im gonna get hit; an i will apply pressure volume power physicality to get him out of here, the reverse is true in the case of machida/floyd. The reason they don't get hit, is because they don't accept that you have to take so much damage to win or be offensively effective.
     
  2. SteelHammer

    SteelHammer Green Belt

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2010
    Messages:
    1,046
    Likes Received:
    3
    Location:
    parts unknown Occupation: asskicker TrainingStyle:
    I think it's a lack of standup technique. They're not capable of defending themselves from punches well, so they don't try. They just throw their best punches right back.
     
  3. SAAMAG

    SAAMAG San Antonio Applied Martial Arts Group

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2005
    Messages:
    3,716
    Likes Received:
    17
    It's more so I think a preference and a byproduct of their martial upbringing so to speak.

    I will slip, dodge, use footwork and etcetera for shots that I see coming and wish to avoid--but that's not my "signature" method. I won't purposely take a heavy kick or punch to the face mind you, or a square hook to the body for example. However glancing blows around my head area and parts of the body are fine. I don't worry too much about being untouchable as much as I do just making sure the times I'm touched don't hurt me.

    Other times I have more of a mindset of taking certain shots to get a better one, and sometimes I do it to demoralize my opponent--letting them give me everything as I keep coming; which is just as much a mental strategy as it is a physical one. You have to remember that the mentality of KK and MT and similar arts is to be a strong, fearless, and conditioned fighter.

    Also, notice what happens to Floyd and Machida when they do get hit...they don't last long. Mosley would have knocked him out cold in the second if Floyd didn't pussy out and hold onto the arm....and well we all know what happened to Machida in UFC 113.
     
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2010
  4. thirteen

    thirteen Brown Belt

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2007
    Messages:
    3,664
    Likes Received:
    7
    Location:
    Chatsworth Estate
    Come to a boxing gym.
    You'll see evasive footwork, slipping, head movement
    etc a plenty.
     
  5. TheTruth1982

    TheTruth1982 Guest

    ^^this

    the countering game doesn't come without some good experience. Go to a proper gym and you'll see a lot of it.

    And LOL at the guy who said Floyd pussied out when he grabbed Shane when he got rocked. And that "he doesnt last long" when he gets hit....When have you ever seen him not last? Regaining his awareness and dominating the rest of the fight is not lasting long? maybe you have a different definition of lasting.

    I gotta remember not to take this guy seriously from now on
     
  6. SAAMAG

    SAAMAG San Antonio Applied Martial Arts Group

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2005
    Messages:
    3,716
    Likes Received:
    17
    Well that's implicitly part of his point I think. Outside of boxing you don't see it often. Part of that has to do with the anatomy of the ruleset and environment, as well as general rules by which the fighting system was developed.

    I think all systems of fighting have means of evasion, baiting, feinting, countering, and the like, just that some do it more prominently and/or different than others.

    Take Muay Thai versus Boxing--there's very real reasons why all that movement isn't used...because it's likely to get you caught by something else...like a knee or kick.
     
  7. SAAMAG

    SAAMAG San Antonio Applied Martial Arts Group

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2005
    Messages:
    3,716
    Likes Received:
    17
    You're a Floydiot too? I would have never guessed that'd you'd be living vicariously through Floyd too. The arm grab is what allowed him to recover. The rest of the fight he came back in his usual counterattack style...but that punch hurt him, and he resorted to a pussy move to get through it.
     
  8. TheTruth1982

    TheTruth1982 Guest

    lol man i'm beginning to question if you are reading what i write or not. I said he "lasted" and has never "not lasted"....because you said he doesn't last long. Your definition of lasting different than mine? because him being able to recover in that fight was definitely lasting in my book.

    floydiot nice one! har har :redface:
     
  9. SAAMAG

    SAAMAG San Antonio Applied Martial Arts Group

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2005
    Messages:
    3,716
    Likes Received:
    17
    You're right. That's probably just a matter of miscommunication. When I say don't last, I'm not talking about endurance. It means that they either were knocked out or got damn close to it, i.e their chin is suspect. Which means that they need to stick to their normal counterattacking fighting style and not go toe-to-toe or else they don't do so hot.

    I'm not a Floyd fanatic, but has he ever has his chin tested truly? Perhaps Sinister can reply on this one because I honestly don't know. But based on that particular fight, I'd say that Floyd should probably stick to boxing and not fighting because his chin probably can't handle the latter.
     
  10. TheTruth1982

    TheTruth1982 Guest

    Watch Floyd vs Judah. He got rocked there a few times, of course Judah isn't as hard a hitter as Mosley, but after that fight I questioned Floyds chin a bit. So you are right maybe he wont last toe to toe exchanging blows and taking them, but he will surely last throughout the fight and dominate. He always has.
     
  11. SAAMAG

    SAAMAG San Antonio Applied Martial Arts Group

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2005
    Messages:
    3,716
    Likes Received:
    17
    Well we'll see when if/when he fights Pacquiao.
     
  12. TheTruth1982

    TheTruth1982 Guest

    Yes we will see when Pac gets schooled worse than Mosley. Floyd is going to light him up quote me on that and wait till it happens, if it doesnt get ruined for us.

    If anything I give Williams, Bradley, or Martinez a better chance at beating Floyd then Manny
     
  13. lukewall

    lukewall Green Belt

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2006
    Messages:
    1,300
    Likes Received:
    14
    Floyd has a granite chin. The few times he's been hurt, he's shook it off and and put his opponent on the wrong side of an ass kicking.

    So, when Mosley cracked him and hurt him what should he have done? Gone toe-to-toe and get dropped. One man's pussy move is another man's move of a seasoned fighter.
     
  14. SAAMAG

    SAAMAG San Antonio Applied Martial Arts Group

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2005
    Messages:
    3,716
    Likes Received:
    17
    Well let me ask, are you allowed to grab and hold someones arm as a defense in boxing?

    I expect people to fight under the rules, if you get rocked, you try and use your SKILL in boxing to get out of it not your skill in clinching or grappling.

    Yes he's seasoned. Absolutely he's skilled. That's why I feel he should be held to th standards that a skilled boxer should use. Evasiion, slipping, bobbing and weaving, footwork, counterpunching, and etcetera.
     
  15. c0r1nth14n

    c0r1nth14n Blue Belt

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2010
    Messages:
    573
    Likes Received:
    2
    Location:
    Los Angeles
    I'm a Muay Thai noob but I definitely try to make people miss. It's actually something I wish I got more of at my gym. Most of the guys seem perfectly willing to eat strikes if it means they can get in some of their own, which is cool by me if that's the way they like it, but isn't my style. I'm not very GOOD at it yet, but I'm trying to work a lot on blocks, slips, footwork, etc.

    i would say I'm not afraid of getting hit, and I accept that it's gonna happen sometimes, but I like evasion better. The only hit I'll eat on purpose is middle kicks, which I can usually catch post-kick and then get in a punch to their face before i sweep out their leg. It seems like people get a lot more frustrated when they're missing, too, which I like, and while i may be wrong it does seem like evasion would be one of the most valuable skills in a real-world altercation. So yeah, I would say that at this point I'm working on a fairly defensive style.
     
  16. SAAMAG

    SAAMAG San Antonio Applied Martial Arts Group

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2005
    Messages:
    3,716
    Likes Received:
    17
    Well, what you can do is start thinking about what evasions they're doing, and have a contigency plan for it. E.G. If I throw a right cross, generally the evasion guy will roll it, outside slip it, duck it, inside slip it weaving back to the outside, etc. So if you've got a guy that likes to slip outside, throw your rear straight and immediately throw a same-side round kick. If he likes to duck then follow it with a knee. If he likes to bob and weave a lot, time him with a knee or low kick following the punch...etc etc.

    There are guys that like to move, but they're movements are still textbook and should be known to you even if you don't do them yourself. Adapt and overcome.

    My general strategy when the other guy likes to move is to jab and teep alot, feint, bait, and watch what the other guy is doing, log it, and time them. I stalk, cut off the fighting area, and wait for mistakes.
     
  17. Soul Rebel 2

    Soul Rebel 2 Black Belt

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2008
    Messages:
    5,344
    Likes Received:
    821
    Location:
    Planet Earth
    I'm big on making people miss, thats when you can land some of your cleanest and hardest shots.
     
  18. lukewall

    lukewall Green Belt

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2006
    Messages:
    1,300
    Likes Received:
    14
     
  19. thirteen

    thirteen Brown Belt

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2007
    Messages:
    3,664
    Likes Received:
    7
    Location:
    Chatsworth Estate
    + Juan on what Soul Rebel said.
    Walking in and absorb shots is all well and good
    until you face a guy that keeps moving and
    hitting hard.
     
  20. Kin

    Kin White Belt

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2007
    Messages:
    96
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    Boston, Massachusetts
    I practice moving my head a lot in the gym, but I really need to start adding counters to it. I sort of get into 'head movement' mode, where I slip, weave under, and evade shots but don't get back into "i'm gonna punch you" mode until after the exchange is over. At the moment, my new focus is to get good at ripping shots off of the openings that my head movement creates.

    That said, I've found it really hard to use this stuff in fights. Maybe its because I'm still new to fighting, but a lot of my defense is lost in the ring. Its only been in my last two fights that I've been able to use defensive techniques -- and most of it is just footwork. I did manage to come under a couple of punches in my last fight, though, which I was really proud of.
     

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.