How important is Protein, Creatine, Glutamine & EFA's for those who don't lift?

Discussion in 'Dieting / Supplement Discussion' started by armbarking, Mar 14, 2008.

  1. armbarking

    armbarking Green Belt

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    I'm a grappler. I train BJJ 4-5 days a week for 2 hours at a time. I try to eat "clean". Mostly lean beef, chicken, beans, whole wheat foods, etc. Currently, I take a one-a-day type vitamin in the afternoon and fish oil pills at night. I usually eat chicken a couple hours before I train. I have some carbs in the form of a powerbar 1/2 hr before class and drink a Gatorade/Water mixture during class.

    My question is, I have always heard that you should take in 40-60 grams of protein within an hour of working out. I usually eat about 1 1/2 hours after my workout and don't always get a lot of protein in. Reason being by the time I shower, change, drive home (30 mins) & cook dinner it is usually 1 1/2 hours after I get off the mat. So, does a grappler require the same protein intake in the same ti****ble as a weightlifter? Am I hurting my recovery and muscular growth by not getting in enough protein in time? What about Glutamine? Is it a necessity for grapplers like it is for weight lifters? And finally, does anybody know the benefits of adding Creatine to a grapplers supplemenation?

    Thanks in advance for your help.

    _mike
     
  2. daveytech

    daveytech Yellow Belt

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    You could just pack a snack like cold chicken or a protein bar of some kind for after your training. Something portable and not too expensive.

    I think the idea is not to be running on an empty stomach after exercise because your body will start to chew away at itself.

    As far as knowing how much protein you should take in at what time, I can't answer.
     
  3. joshetc

    joshetc butthole hurts from teh gay

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    I think these are basically essential for everyone, even nonlifters:

    - 100g+ protein a day
    - 1g+ EPA/DHA a day
    - Good Multi

    You should consider creatine also, if you do any kind of athletics (in your case, yes)
     
  4. Todd Gack

    Todd Gack Dutch

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    As a combative athlete who trains regularly you most definitely could benefit from taking all of those, excluding maybe Glutamine from the list.
     
  5. Zero_Sen

    Zero_Sen Shodan

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    I think there's recent evidence floating around somewhere in DS to suggest that creatine supplementation has benefits for non-athletes as well (has to do with brain function I believe).

    Also tons of info floating around to suggest that glutamine supplementation is a waste of time and $.
     
  6. theNuge

    theNuge Brown Belt

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    Before I started lifting I took those supplements. I noticed the effects in my recovery. I definitely recommend taking them.
     
  7. joshetc

    joshetc butthole hurts from teh gay

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    I've seen information agreeing with both of those points. More creatine = more ATP, and ATP is vital for nearly all cellular function.
     
  8. stylesbjj**

    stylesbjj** Banned Banned

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    Protein and EFA 4 sure.

    EFA's regardless of any physical activity.
     
  9. mechanikjoe

    mechanikjoe Orange Belt

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    100g of protein a day is a little much for the average person. It's recommended that the average person consume .8g/kg bodyweight, while strength training athletes could most likely consume 1.6-1.9 g/kg bodyweight.

    However, most Americans get waaaay more protein than they need through their normal meals anyway, so sometimes a supplement isn't necessary. And if you get more protein than your body can use, it'll just get stored as fat and be used for energy instead of its intended uses.

    I definently recommend the EPA/DHA and the multi, however, as most people are really lacking in those departments. lol
     
  10. armbarking

    armbarking Green Belt

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    ^
    I've been told 1 gram/lb of body weight. Which would equal 176 grams/day broken up into 5 or 6 meals. No way do I get that much right now. What I'm really trying to figure out is if a weightlifter requires 40-60 grams after a workout to properly allow for building of muscle and recovery, what about other athletes? In my case a grappler. Is it just as important? Or is it different because we are not tearing the muscles the same as you would by lifting? I don't want to overdo the protein as someone suggested it can be stored as fat.
     
  11. ChingChang

    ChingChang White Belt

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    protein and carbs after training is important. It doesn't have to be a shake, you could bring some food if that's easier.
    glutamine is not important.
    EFAs are important.
    Creatine and beta alanine are not necessary but they can improve your performance.
     
  12. Glen Sonnabend

    Glen Sonnabend Amateur Fighter

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    Eat like a body builder.
     
  13. joshetc

    joshetc butthole hurts from teh gay

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    Extra protein > extra carbs > extra bad fat. Most americans are on high fat, high carb diets. Protein displaces other useless calories in the diet as it keeps people fuller. Half the population is sickly skinny with no muscle mass at all, the other half is fat as fuck. The reason for both is a diet high in fat and carbs and low in protein.
     
  14. mechanikjoe

    mechanikjoe Orange Belt

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    Ummm, I'm fairly certain that Americans get much more protein than they actually need. I could bring up a bunch of studies, but I'm lazy at the moment. Also, and you're saying that the skinny part of the population is skinny because they don't eat protein?? Eating protein doesn't magically build muscle mass, they're skinny because they don't lift. Americans get plenty of protein, but the sources that most of them get it from are questionable. Fried anything, red meats, etc. How many people eat plain grilled chicken breasts for meals? I bet you 10 times as many eat fried chicken tenders or chicken wings instead, which also leads to obesity.
     
  15. mechanikjoe

    mechanikjoe Orange Belt

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    Whoever told you that has no idea what they're talking about. A pound is less than half a kg, which means that by those calculations they would be getting a little more than 2 g of protein per kg of bodyweight. I just read an entire research paper which included several studies where researches were trying to figure out the protein needs of strength training athletes (like, olympic lifters, not guys who go into the gym and bench and curl for 40 minutes), and I believe even in the study that had the highest amounts, 2.1 was still the very high upper limit. Point is, .8 g of protein/kg bodyweight is enough for the average person. For athletes, probably about double that, so 1.6 g/kg.

    lol, if you tried to get 176 grams of protein in your diet a day you would be eating virtually nothing BUT meat, and would most likely be a fatass. :icon_chee
     
  16. mechanikjoe

    mechanikjoe Orange Belt

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    Ok, well I just finished my tabata sprints and I'm bored so I figured I'd dig up some of my old notes and research papers.

    Ideal dietary intake ranges
    Normal Diet
    Protein: 10-35%
    Lipids(fats): 20-35%
    Carbs: 45-65%

    In high protein diets:
    Protein 35%
    Fats 20%
    Carbs 45%


    Also, in all of the different studies regarding strength training athletes, this is the one that included the highest protein intake levels. Keep in mind that the "guinnea pigs" in these experiments were all experienced BODYBUILDERS (i.e., athletes in search of maximum hypertrophy of the muscles).

    They had the experimental group that was consuming 2.2 g protein/kg bodyweight, and a "placebo" group that was consuming 1.1 g protein/kg bodyweight. Everything else in the training was identical, including types of protein administered, exercises performed, reps, sets, etc. The group consuming 2.2 g/protein experienced significantly greater gains in their 3 rep-max bench press and squat. The gains were taken 6 months after the start of the experiment.


    Also, in regards to creatine, they got three groups of athletes and gave one group a supplement of only protein, one of them recieved a supplement of protein and creatine, while the other was a placebo group that got no protein or creatine. Whey protein was given to them at 1.2 g/kg bodyweight, in addition to their normal whole food diet. Didn't state how much creatine the protein/creatine group recieved. It did say however that the amount of lean muscle mass gained was greatest in protein/creatine group compared to the other 2, and that the protein group gained more lean muscle than the placebo group.

    Again, none of these studies were necessarily suprising, but just thought I'd add some actual scientific evidence to the thread. :)

    One more thing! Babies need 2.4 g of protein per kg of bodyweight, until they're about 6 months. That's about 1 g/lb. lol
     
  17. mechanikjoe

    mechanikjoe Orange Belt

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    Damn double post.

    Anyways, anybody and everybody should supplement EFA's, there's absolutely no reason not too unless every meal you eat is fish, which it's not. lol

    Protein, depending on your diet, you could probably do without supplementing and get most of what you need through whole foods if you're not doing any strength training at all. That being said, I don't think it would be a bad idea to maybe have a protein shake after an MMA session or before you go to bed, because in MMA you really can put some strain on your muscles. Plus, if you get some good tasting protein its like a treat for your efforts. lol

    Creatine, I'd recommend it before an MMA session for sure, even if you don't lift or anything.

    Glutamine, I don't have very much experience with, so I couldn't really tell you.
     
  18. mechanikjoe

    mechanikjoe Orange Belt

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    Ugh, its not too late and I completely didn't even realize that I didn't really answer your question you asked here. Or maybe I did? Anyways, always eat protein after a workout, for sure. Now, do you need to be drinking a shake with a ridiculous amount of protein in it? Probably not. If you work out late, maybe drink a muscle milk shake afterwards. If you work out earlier in the evening, I think you'd do well to just eat a chicken breast afterwards or something like that.
     
  19. mechanikjoe

    mechanikjoe Orange Belt

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    The bold part is 100% correct.

    Which also answers the part in italics. The ideal time to consume protein is immediately following a workout, and before a workout as well. If you have a long time between the time you stop training and the actual time that you can eat something, definently take something with you to snack on afterwards. Chicken, some almonds, protein bar, maybe a premade shake in a thermos or something?
     
  20. IronMaidenfan#1

    IronMaidenfan#1 Brown Belt

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    I'd pretty much go with this. I only started taking PWO supplements about a year ago, a little longer. Prior to that I found that I would get terrible next day fatigue in my legs after training BJJ and since I've been taking supps PWO I've felt so much better. Admittedly I've improved my diet a lot also but still I think it's benificial to take supps PWO with the exception of Glutamine as Sonny mentioned.
     

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