how hard against higher belts?

Discussion in 'Grappling Technique' started by akqjt, Dec 10, 2005.

  1. akqjt

    akqjt Orange Belt

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    This is a question out there for other sucky white belts like me. I weigh 134 pounds and I have three months of experience. The only guys who show up regularly are the blue and purple belts. On top of obviously being way better than me, they are all in the 155-175 pound range.

    So while I'm really grateful for the opportunity to train in a small school against a group of guys who can really help me, it sucks that I never really get to beat anyone (unless they let me) or even get position on anyone (unless they let me). They are great guys to train with and they give me openings and test me all the time, but it's still really discouraging. I find that it's kind of dulled any killer instinct that I have. The other day a guy all but put himself into a triangle....so I did everything that I could do close the triangle and get the tap, but in the back of my mind I knew that if he really wanted to, he could escape - and so he did. It's even worse when I'm just in guard (top or bottom) or half-guard (top or bottom) because I will try to pass/sweep but I know I'm not going to get it unless the person I'm doing it to decides to let me get one.

    I'm not saying I'm totally dogging it out there, but I think in a way I focus too much on slowly doing the right thing like we've been shown in drills instead of just exploding and seeing if I can really catch a guy by surprise and power through him.

    How do you guys deal with this when you are a beginner dealing with a way superior opponent? Do you still give it 100%?
     
  2. Cornsloth

    Cornsloth Orange Belt

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    You're not going to get anything on these guys, period. Just worry about the guys at your level, no matter how regularly they come.
    Try and get some friends involved.

    Te best way to get better is to go with someone who is better. Every chance I get, I go with someone better then myself.
     
  3. akqjt

    akqjt Orange Belt

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    I know that - that's the thing. I'm not expecting to get anything on a purple belt who has 30 pounds on me. But am I going to learn best by going as hard as I can on them, or by just trying to perfect technique at the expense of speed and power?
     
  4. Cornsloth

    Cornsloth Orange Belt

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    Kinda both, if your technique isn't clean, then it won't work, but you need to explode into your techs. As soon as you grab a sleeve and collar push off and scissor, don't give them a chance to think about what you're doing, but be prepared to close your guard again just as fast.

    Bing outmatched like this, I'd suggest not really looking to submit, just look to score points; make your side mount heavy, get a really wide base when you're in guard, and for crying out loud don't posture up in mount.
     
  5. loui_ludwig

    loui_ludwig Green Belt

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    I read in the past issues of Grappling magazine, that one bjj blackbelt(located in Los Angeles) that when he first took bjj in Brazil, he was thrown in with blue and purple belt. He said that made him a better bjj practitioner.

    When i was taking bjj class, everytime i spar with blue belts, in my mind i was already thinking that i already lost since they are more expierienced and know more techniques. But when i left the bjj school, i realized that i made a mistake of thinking that i already lost to the blue belts. I should have use it as an advantage grappling with blue belts, finding out what techniques they most often use and find a counter to that move.

    My advice give it 100 percent, use it to ur advantage. If u see to blue belts sparring against each other, watch their techniques to learn from them.
     
  6. DMcKayBJJ

    DMcKayBJJ Blue Belt

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    Dude, I feel for you cause I've been going through the same thing at times in the past few weeks...

    Yeah, it sucks not to have NEWER guys to beat and "perfect" YOUR technique on, but believe me and everyone else when we say that it is WAY better to train with higher levels all the time. In fact, once in a while I'll be in class with another kind of sucky white belt, and I'll do pretty well in tapping him or "beating" him. It's a great short-term feeling, but an hour after class I think, "Man, I hope I get to roll with the big boys at the next class again." Because "beating" sucky opponents is nowhere near as educational as rolling with the big boys, even if you're just "surviving" against them.

    Basically I've learned to change my attitude and thank God that as a beginner I've got more advanced guys to roll with. It can be disheartening at times, but overall, it's a BLESSING.

    But to answer your question better, yeah, I often am confused about whether to go 100% with the big boys or just try to work on technique and tap like every 2 seconds unless they decide to pity me and just let me have it. Lately, I decided to just go 100% as much as I can, every opponent, every night...

    NOT spaz out though. But also not just lay back and get killed because I know they're better than I am. I give a good fight, try to work positions and techniques that I know, etc. In fact, as you know, you can often tell when they're just "allowing" you to beat them a bit. To me, that means that I'm learning how to recognize my opponent's moves/energy/strategy, and thus, getting better at least in that respect.

    In summary, I HATE getting owned by the advanced guys AS IT'S HAPPENING. But when time is up, and I look back and what I learned that class, I am SO grateful to be able to train with experienced people, improve my technique and appreciation of the moves, build up my strength and cardio (you have to!), etc. I mean, if you really want to appreciate the advanced guys, grab a noob friend and an instructional DVD and try to learn some new stuff together...you'll realize it's like the blind leading the blind. No thanks...I'd rather be with those who KNOW. Also, my old school had a "beginner" class full of spazzy white belts that were my size that I could "beat" every now and again, and I didn't learn shit there compared to my new place.

    Good luck, bro...hang in there, and even if you have a sucky class once, there's ALWAYS next time!!!
     
  7. Foolkiller

    Foolkiller You have meddled with the primal forces of nature!

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    Go full bore. They'll own you but in time you will learn to conserve your energy and work for techniques as a result.
     
  8. ClubberLange

    ClubberLange Green Belt

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    Lower grades tend to go HARD, In my experience.
    Really sucks when you've just come back from an injury.
    Everytime youy get passed, caught, etc, ask them why.
    if they don't want to tell you, find a cool cat who will.
     
  9. dude just keep it up. Last night I finally got a takedown on my coach....then he proceeded to reverse me and crank my neck.
     
  10. LCDforMe

    LCDforMe Purple Belt

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    When I go with higher belts, I generally go about 95%. I never go 100% as I would only do that when in competetion (I think subconcously it is harder to go full bore when you're wrestling somebody you know). I seem to always end up with purple belts and it sucks but at the same time, they teach me soooo much stuff.
     
  11. dutchmasterj3

    dutchmasterj3 Blue Belt

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    just keep striving..hardest part of jiu jitsu is you're going to get your ass kicked for a long time...even thorugh blue belt and so on i'm a blue and still regulated by the purple and brown and black belts
     
  12. wingelefoot

    wingelefoot Guest

    my favorite part of a night of bjj is going against our resident brown belt (small club). sure, he schools me without even using his hands, but i can feel my improvements immediately.
     
  13. Gsoares2***

    Gsoares2*** Banned Banned

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    just try to work the techniques you learned.. dont try to over power or snatch stuff. New guys as well as many old are to consumed with winning instead of trying and getting their techniques to work together efficiently. Practice to be smooth more than anything else. You want things to flow together.

    Alot of times when new guys come in i start real slow with them, giving them things and helping them out. If they turn to spazing out and just try to rip me apart with strength ill choke them harder or put an armlock on fast to let them know.. If they continue to spaz after ive said something and have had to turn it up on them a little then i will just quit telling them tips. Guys who are calm and try to get the technique to work without just trying to smash throug things, I will help as much as i can.

    Best advice when in question is to be humble. The true underlying issue to learn in bjj is to be able to let your self go. Care less about winning and more about opening your game to allow new and better possibilitys. It is training, and should be used as training.
     
  14. devante

    devante Silver Belt

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    this is the same way i learned and yeah it sucks to not get wins and more or less be dominated; but trust me it pays off because ur training w/guys w/more exp and tech skill, so when u face those lower ranked guys or guys on ur level u will do great. TRUST ME

    training w/people on ur level or beating people on ur level is not gonna really make u tht much better for one; an two even if u dominate and build up ur confidence, it's gonna be crushed when a) u roll w/higher belts or b)when u train w/guys on ur level who work out w/higher belts/better people.

    either way ur resolve to keep going and to do ur best will be tested at some point, urs is just being tested earlier...

    but the one thing ur missing is that if u don't work harder and try to close or take adv of the openings, they are never gonna step it up or respect u because tthey won't see the progression in tech..timing..strategy and they won't see any advancement in ur conditioning/strength/etc (which will stall cus ur not going hard or working)

    as u get better and show them u know what to do..they will give u less and less openings or opportunites to tap them
     
  15. Brad

    Brad Yellow Belt

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    You're the kind of upper belt every dojo needs.
     
  16. ClubberLange

    ClubberLange Green Belt

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    That's my exact philosophy on rolling with guys when they first start.
    I've also heard a few guys bragging how they caught me. I just don't let these guys catch me any more.
    It's the best way to practise sub escapes IMO. Let the new guys catch you in subs and try to escape. Then try the same escapes on higher skilled guys as you get better then them. Don't have to offer them subs then though. :p
     
  17. Crooks

    Crooks White Belt

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    haha man i feel ya, at first you walk in there thinking i can't wait to get good, and you end up getting completly dominated. i've been there, felt like quiting. but you can learn alot from rolling with those guys, learn from what they do to you, and try not to let it happen twice, ask for tips, if they are good guys like you say they'll help you out.

    but that being said you won't really get too much better until you roll with people on your level/ lower than you. in those rolls you really get to try your moves and get the kinks worked out. don't give up though, 'cause tehre is a million of us out there.

    size wise i'm in your boat, i focus alot on technique to help with that (which is the point of BJJ), i find "exploding" does nothing but wear me out, technique and thinking in advance is the way to go. try to hang with those guys as long as you can in rolls and learn from them.. thats my opinion

    if you've been training for three months you've seen at least 10 - 20 guys show up for a class or a week and never come back, you've made it past the hard part (the ego check) now the only thing that can possibly happen is you to get better.
     
  18. akqjt

    akqjt Orange Belt

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    Thanks for the comments all. One thng that I never got to mention was that even though I almost never get a submission or sweep, I have really gotten pretty good at my upa escapes :) So it's not all bad.
     
  19. mepersoner

    mepersoner Purple Belt

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    Throw in a random sub that you shouldn't know. My first day of Jiu-jitsu I almost caught a purple belt with a knee-lock because he just wasn't expecting me to know anything.

    "Almost," he rolled me... then flattened me and rnc'd me. At least I got him to scream "oh shit!" though.
     
  20. devante

    devante Silver Belt

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    i have to disagree i used to train only w/people better than me, at this small rather hardcore grappling club; alot of wrestlers/judoka/submission guys, an a couple bjj guys. They just beat me from pillar to post..and i was getting tapped left and right for like 6mths, then one day it clicked; i got taken down by a wrestler type (who had tapped me numerous times). He got on top i tried to bridge out and rev, i almost got it; but he stopped me, i slid out the side and rnc'ed him; i had to hold onto it..but he tapped. Best feeling in the world.

    The guy i trained w/said, hey nice move; he was explaining how 6 months ago, hell six days ago i just would given up and been put back on my ass. Instead i slid out and went for the sub..he did not expect it and was surprised impressed.

    no i am not a great grappler; but my point is even in being dominated u can work on things/dev things, so that u can create openings or take adv when an opening is given.

    on a sidenote when i went w/people who had my rank (which is no belt) or my years of exp which at the time was less than 1, they had a hard time keeping me on my back, sweeping or reversing me, or subbing me. Working w/better people forces u to at least progress def...and in some ways positioning and the wrestling aspect of grappling.

    i don't mind losing..i don't have an ego about losing or think more of myself when i win; i just think about what i did good or what i did bad...that's it...if i win coo. but if i don't that is coo too.

    like i said earlier at some point ur gonna have to face better people, an building ur confidence against lesser guys or guys on ur level will be pointless; when u face the better dudes they will hand it to u and there goes ur confidence. Or when u train w/people on ur level..but who train w/better overall instructors or schools or people; an they hand u ur ass, ur gonna lose confidence cus a guy training as long or shorter than u and has the same belt level is tapping u left and right.

    better to take ur medicine now..it makes me more confident whenever i face anyone my level or better; if they are on my level i know i have gone w/people better. If they are way better, so what almost everyone i train w/is waaay better; i know i can hold my own.
     

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