How good was/is Josh Barnett?

[FilipEmoFights]

And why couldn’t he ever get a ufc streak off the ground in the modern era?

 

[generalyum]

Super good. So random that Rothwell out of all people made him tap lol

 

[Croaker]

Probably because he was 35 when he came back to the UFC.

 

[HuskySamoan]

Pretty good. Prime Barnett would likely be top 5 at HW, definitely top 10. But then again, that's not really saying much because there's barely 5 good HWs in the UFC.

Does he beat Gane? Blaydes? Almeida? I seriously don't like his chances vs Tom or Jones.

 

[Ares Black]

Very skilled and very smart

 

[Chama]

Baby Faced Assasin
War of War (before Figgy)
Was Top Tier

But, neither in UFC nor Affliction he could stay away from the Secret Juice.

 

[NoSmilez]

He has pretty good ring IQ. He is one of the big guys who can play a smaller man's game. He used the same Mighty Mouse clinch game plan to trounce Mir. I think he understands the game very well even though he isn't the most athletic guy.

 

[moreorless87]

Probably because he was 35 when he came back to the UFC.

Honestly I thought his UFC return run was actually a bit better than you'd expect given his age/mileage.

The elbows vs Browne he clearly wasnt wise to and Rothwell at that stage was a pretty good fighter, it was after the PED bust and layoff he clearly declined a lot.

 

[Phrozenspite]

Honestly I thought his UFC return run was actually a bit better than you'd expect given his age/mileage.

The elbows vs Browne he clearly wasnt wise to and Rothwell at that stage was a pretty good fighter, it was after the PED bust and layoff he clearly declined a lot.

i think he had the same problem ken shamrock did. the pro wrestling stuff didn't help his development as an actual fighter

 

[moreorless87]

i think he had the same problem ken shamrock did. the pro wrestling stuff didn't help his development as an actual fighter

I don't think Josh ever did as much of that during his MMA run as Ken did though, just a few fights in New Japan wasnt it?

Ken I think had the double negative that his pro wrestling was full time at a point MMA was evolving fast and maybe moreso that it was full time WWF schedule with the toll that takes on the body, pretty soon after his MMA return he was really breaking down physically.

 

[Doctor Grudge]

i think he had the same problem ken shamrock did. the pro wrestling stuff didn't help his development as an actual fighter

Josh Barnett's "pro wrestling" is just catch wrestling, like Sakuraba. He was barely in the wrestling industry, other than a few crossovers that Pride would have with wrestling promotions.

If anything, Josh was clearly at the top of Pride, in league with guys like Nogueria. Ken Shamrock was very different because he basically destroyed his body while in the WWE.

 

[Kowboy On Sherdog]

Prime Josh would be Top 3 in today's Heavyweight Division

 

[650lb Sumo]

@Josh Barnett

 

[SuspectChin]

He's good at failing drug tests and being completely unreliable. He got stripped of his HW title (UFC), sank an entire organization (Affliction) and never ended up fighting for another he was signed to (Bellator), due to his reckless and careless nature.

Barnett will always remain the great what if of mma.

 

[Royce Greasy]

Pretty good. Prime Barnett would likely be top 5 at HW, definitely top 10. But then again, that's not really saying much because there's barely 5 good HWs in the UFC.

Does he beat Gane? Blaydes? Almeida? I seriously don't like his chances vs Tom or Jones.

He destroys all 3 of those guys with Gane posing the most problems because of his elusive striking style but still Barnett gets him, he was a master grappler.

I wouldn't say Tom has been tested yet he only really beat 4 top guys and that's not an insult just a fact and I believe he is number 1 at HW at the moment, as for Barnett against Jones
that's an interesting fight I'd see Jones as more athletic but remember Barnett is a fully rounded fighter good everywhere especially the clinch I personally think it goes to decision
with Jones being the winner, don't forget though Jones is not tested against HW's and you could 100% expect that those sort of fights would be much tougher than anything he ever experienced facing LHW where he was 90% of the time the larger man and the times I believe he lost were the times he faced fighters with similar physical attributes.

 

[Royce Greasy]

He's good at failing drug tests and being completely unreliable. He got stripped of his HW title (UFC), sank an entire organization (Affliction) and never ended up fighting for another he was signed to (Bellator), due to his reckless and careless nature.

Barnett will always remain the great what if of mma.

All those criticisms are valid and true, but to say he is the great what if is quite short sighted here's some facts he won the Superbrawl HW tournament beating 3 opponents in 1 night one of which was a prime Bobby Hoffman who had win over Herring, Ricco, Overeem also he was one of the youngest UFC HW champs at the defeating a prime Randy and yes he tested positive but at that time there wasn't a strict anti PED policy so the win stands even today, in Pride he managed to defeat Alexander when he was an absolute killer, Mark Hunt at the time he beat Wand and prime Mirko and most impressively winning a decision against a prime Nog that's fukking insane.

All those accomplishments and still came back and beat some legends in UFC(Mir,Arlovski)
and made it to the finals of the SF tournament giving Cormier a competitive fight as well, all this while clearly being past his best years I'd say he's pretty freaking great compare that to someone like Cain or Brock who had under 20 fights and beat past it fighters like the corpse of Nog and retired after basically 10 years if that because Cain was injured and sat out for a time, personally I'd say Barnett is way more accomplished than both of those guys.

 

[Royce Greasy]

Super good. So random that Rothwell out of all people made him tap lol

That was simply that Rothwell was peaking because he also destroyed Reem near that time and take into consideration that Barnett was clearly past it at that point, I don't think this can be argued a stint in UFC in the early 2000s then Pride and SF then back to UFC again.

I would never say Ben is a better fighter than Barnett despite what happened.

 

[TRYHARD 2001]

That was simply that Rothwell was peaking because he also destroyed Reem near that time and take into consideration that Barnett was clearly past it at that point, I don't think this can be argued a stint in UFC in the early 2000s then Pride and SF then back to UFC again.

I would never say Ben is a better fighter than Barnett despite what happened.

That's the correct way to look at it; I call it the Iran Barkley/Tommy Hearns dilemma. Just because one fighter beats the other does not automatically make him the better fighter, at least when viewed in terms of legacy.

 

[Doctor Grudge]

All those criticisms are valid and true, but to say he is the great what if is quite short sighted here's some facts he won the Superbrawl HW tournament beating 3 opponents in 1 night one of which was a prime Bobby Hoffman who had win over Herring, Ricco, Overeem also he was one of the youngest UFC HW champs at the defeating a prime Randy and yes he tested positive but at that time there wasn't a strict anti PED policy so the win stands even today, in Pride he managed to defeat Alexander when he was an absolute killer, Mark Hunt at the time he beat Wand and prime Mirko and most impressively winning a decision against a prime Nog that's fukking insane.

All those accomplishments and still came back and beat some legends in UFC(Mir,Arlovski)
and made it to the finals of the SF tournament giving Cormier a competitive fight as well, all this while clearly being past his best years I'd say he's pretty freaking great compare that to someone like Cain or Brock who had under 20 fights and beat past it fighters like the corpse of Nog and retired after basically 10 years if that because Cain was injured and sat out for a time, personally I'd say Barnett is way more accomplished than both of those guys.

Josh Barnett was a great fighter, and was definitely better than Lesnar, though I'm not sure about Cain.

I have to say though, hyping up Mark Hunt in Pride is one of my pet peeves. The only good win Mark had in Japan was against Crocop, which was a stylistically favorable matchup for him.

Wanderlei Silva was outweighed by 80+ pounds, took the fight on a day notice, and won the fight lol. It was a not a good decision.

 

[Royce Greasy]

That's the correct way to look at it; I call it the Iran Barkley/Tommy Hearns dilemma. Just because one fighter beats the other does not automatically make him the better fighter, at least when viewed in terms of legacy.

I never even meant by legacy I believe Barnett would beat Ben if they fought in the early to mid 2000s, fact is the best guys regress in their abilities while the younger guys are peaking usually.