How good really was Rickson Gracie in MMA?

Bobby Fischer said:
Do you have a link to that interview? I did a quick search but couldn't find anything.
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Hickson Gracie Interview 1999s:

Brazilian O Lutador magazine:

Q: Is it true that in your first fight against Zulu, you wanted to give up but Helio said that if you gave up, you had to fight the whole family?

HICKSON: "What a load of bullshit!"

 
He was absolutely very good, without a doubt a BJJ God, but I was in Brazil in 96/97, and even there, at that time, people did not think he was the best in the world or very close to being unbeatable. I'd say Mark Coleman was more highly regarded there at the time. There were plenty of discussions about whether Rickson could beat Coleman, and most people liked Coleman in that fight. The same Coleman lost four in a row shortly after, of course, but Rickson would have lost too had he ever stepped up to fight the best. Most people didn't ever really buy the Rickson hype/400-0 bullshit, I think.
 
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Goatenstein said:
There's a reason he never fought Saku.
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There is also a reason he avoided every legit BJJ opponent as soon as BJJ got good talent at the end of the 80s. Rickson was the master of the family in avoiding legit opponents in bjj and mma. The great Gracies with big Cojones are Royce , Renzo and Royler. Even lunatic Ryan Gracie was more of a fighter than Rickson.

But Rickson is the marketing god and even in 100years will have enough fans parrotting him as the greatest BJJ player because of his big mouth. Even his father laughed about his fabricated mma record.
 
In BJJ, he's pretty much everything he and everyone ever said he was. I honestly get weirded out by some of the stories I hear about how good he was, by very reputable sources. Jean Jacques Machado and

MMA is very debatable. You'll find two major schools of thought on it. Which is either he was an absolute phenom and would have murdered everyone up until around 2000, or that he was never any good and only fought cans.

Like most things, the truth lies somewhere in the middle I believe. He was in all likelihood the best fighter in the world for a period of time. Not many people can say that. However, the sport was in its infancy, and by around 1997, there's a lot of serious challengers that would have given him problems. Some have already been said in this thread. Bas, Ruas, Coleman, ect.

In all fairness to Rickson though, by the late 90's, he was entering his 40's.

It isn't really a cut and dry situation imo.
 
I feel like the Gracies true strength was gaslighting the surrounding area of Brazilians, then the whole world, into believing the family was an unfuckwithable martial arts force of nature.

They all carry themselves with the odd, contrived self important swagger of a religious pundit.

While they tell unconfirmed story after unconfirmed story about their street fight or gym accomplishments.
 
I don't think he did enough to be considered a great in MMA.

In BJJ? the greatest ever.
 
Sir Punchalot said:
He was absolutely very good, without a doubt a BJJ God, but I was in Brazil in 96/97, and even there, at that time, people did not think he was the best in the world or very close to being unbeatable. I'd say Mark Coleman was more highly regarded there at the time. There were plenty of discussions about whether Rickson could beat Coleman, and most people liked Coleman in that fight. The same Coleman lost four in a row shortly after, of course, but Rickson would have lost too had he ever stepped up to fight the best. Most people didn't ever really buy the Rickson hype/400-bullshit, I think.
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Cylence said:
In BJJ, he's pretty much everything he and everyone ever said he was. I honestly get weirded out by some of the stories I hear about how good he was, by very reputable sources. Jean Jacques Machado and

MMA is very debatable. You'll find two major schools of thought on it. Which is either he was an absolute phenom and would have murdered everyone up until around 2000, or that he was never any good and only fought cans.

Like most things, the truth lies somewhere in the middle I believe. He was in all likelihood the best fighter in the world for a period of time. Not many people can say that. However, the sport was in its infancy, and by around 1997, there's a lot of serious challengers that would have given him problems. Some have already been said in this thread. Bas, Ruas, Coleman, ect.

In all fairness to Rickson though, by the late 90's, he was entering his 40's.

It isn't really a cut and dry situation imo.
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Rickson was 35 when he fought rookie Yoshihisa Yamamoto in Vale Tudo Japan.

I think it's obvious enough watching at that fight that he was far from unbeatable lol, even by 90s standards, or close to be the best in the world.
 
pankrat said:
Rickson was 35 when he fought rookie Yoshihisa Yamamoto in Vale Tudo Japan.

I think it's obvious enough watching at that fight that he was far from unbeatable lol, even by 90s standards, or close to be the best in the world.
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Who would you have picked to beat him pre-1996?
 
Cylence said:
Who would you have picked to beat him pre-1996?
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yea it's a hard question, the sport was barely developed to really support any answer, hence his myth

When I say he wasn't close to be the best I was refering to the time he was expected to fight Saku - who was arguably the best.

I'd say there were fighters better than him by mid-late 90s, dont know if few years earlier they would've beat Rickson but I do think a handful of them would have made quicker work of Yoshihisa Yamamoto in '95
 
BIKES! said:
Oh the good ole days when 1 out of 10 posts were this.

The great ban of 2008 that flushed out the 2005 mass Tuf migration. The good ole days
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Ahhh, I remember those wacky TUF noobs. They're OG's now, mind you.
 
Rickson vs tornado?

Rickson by armbar in the very 4th round.
 
he fought in a totally different era. against dudes who have never seen Jiu Jitsu or were blue belts at best. and he was probably the best in the world in bjj at the time. that equals him beating everyone he faced.
 
gono btw said:
Hickson Gracie Interview 1999s:

Brazilian O Lutador magazine:

Q: Is it true that in your first fight against Zulu, you wanted to give up but Helio said that if you gave up, you had to fight the whole family?

HICKSON: "What a load of bullshit!"

Click to expand...



You speak Portugese?
 
pankrat said:
yea it's a hard question, the sport was barely developed to really support any answer, hence his myth

When I say he wasn't close to be the best I was refering to the time he was expected to fight Saku - who was arguably the best.

I'd say there were fighters better than him by mid-late 90s, dont know if few years earlier they would've beat Rickson but I do think a handful of them would have made quicker work of Yoshihisa Yamamoto in '95
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Yeah, no doubt. I'd say 1996/1997 is the cutoff date for his argument for the world best.

And yeah Sakuraba probably would have beaten him, but he was so much younger than Rickson. Actually a lot of the guys that would have given him problems were a lot younger than him.

It gets tough when it gets to the mid-late 90's, but prior to that, I just think he has a good shot at just about anyone, primarily due to his BJJ being so phenomenal and everyone else not really having trained it.

And yeah, a lot of guys would have made quicker work of him, but Rickson was always a cerebral guy. I believed he looked at competition like a human chess match.
 
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