How good are the Diaz brothers?

[BFoe]

How about this as far simple criteria for an "elite "stamp.
Being a top 5 fighter ( in division) for a DECENT PART of your career.
I think that's fair and it makes " elite" mean something when said.

Nick's best wins are ...wait.....uh, wait ........Oh - a half his size BJ penn( who,lol, marked up the bigger Diaz pretty good) , Paul Daley ??? and Robbie Lawler when he was average and coming ( trying) up in the world.

I'll not move off this .I don't care about your infamous lengthy posts ( which sometimes are interesting and sometimes self satisfying and missing the mark on what you're actually talking about ).

In my world Nick Diaz is/was a respected quality fighter but not elite and if I'm being honest - not close.

Talk about evasion, you've forgotten about Nate ( lol) and your first sentence was both being elite.

Oh- and what does Rich Franklin have to do with this ?
I'm fairly certain I've never said anything over the top about Rich ( yes, rich qualifies as elite but he's on no goat list )

But Nick *was* Top 5 at WW for a substantial time. He was elite even by your definition. This was at a time before org-specific rankings, when being Top 5 meant Top 5 in the world, not Top 5 in the UFC (or other org).
Former WEC WW champ, former Strikeforce champ with 3 defenses, 11 fight win streak—which would’ve been 16 had there not been a doc stoppage in the Noons fight. I honestly can’t see how anyone can argue that Nick Diaz wasn’t an elite fighter.

 

[Franklin U.]

Why do you insult?
Did I insult you? Do not lose your cool, it doesnt make you look good

A guy who gets a tittle shot, plus has a win - arguably two - over Conor in his prime and remains in UFC rankings for more than a decade yes, has a case to be called "elite".

And Nick Diaz, Strikeforce and WEC champ, UFC tittle contender and universally recognized as top WW for many years, even more.
Much more so when you acknowledge such status to Rich Franklin for defending a certain belt vs guys outside the top5

Tool is my favorite band. That wasn't an insult and i didn't lose my cool. I was complementing you in a unique way !!???!! ??

 

[Franklin U.]

But Nick *was* Top 5 at WW for a substantial time. He was elite even by your definition. This was at a time before org-specific rankings, when being Top 5 meant Top 5 in the world, not Top 5 in the UFC (or other org).
Former WEC WW champ, former Strikeforce champ with 3 defenses, 11 fight win streak—which would’ve been 16 had there not been a doc stoppage in the Noons fight. I honestly can’t see how anyone can argue that Nick Diaz wasn’t an elite fighter.
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In my world - MY WORLD... Nick more of a debate than little brother but STILL misses the mark of " longevity of a top 5 er".
That's me. Nick , again, is a legend of the sport but when people bring up " elites"- I just think Nick falls short but that's me .

If I felt SFORCE had this incredible roster ( THAT SPECIFIC WEIGHT , HIS TIME) then I would engage this differently .

 

[pankrat]

In my world - MY WORLD... Nick more of a debate than little brother but STILL misses the mark of " longevity of a top 5 er".
That's me. Nick , again, is a legend of the sport but when people bring up " elites"- I just think Nick falls short but that's me .

If I felt SFORCE had this incredible roster ( THAT SPECIFIC WEIGHT , HIS TIME) then I would engage this differently .

Differently like what? Like in the incredible MW roster UFC had around 2005?

 

[Tyr XIII]

I’m gonna go against the grain here and say both are S tier talents and S tier with their skills.
The only reason neither went in to be all time greats is their mentality and coaching. Nick had a certain style and stuck with it his entire career and nate emulated it.

If they had coaches that supported them with kick defense and using offensive wrestling both would have walked through competition

 

[Royce's Gi]

They did ok!

 

[Royce's Gi]

As have 16 others, what is your point??

16 others was an Elite Fighter though!

We have his cousin here on Sherdog.

 

[pankrat]

They did ok!

Excuse me bozo but Yushin Okami was never a big MW.

Weighted around 190-95lbs in fight night as a MW, lighter early in his career.

A below average MW by today standards. Closer to WW average actually.

 

[Georges Hefner]

Nick, in his prime, was an elite fighter. I would definitely favor him over Leon Edwards and Kamaru. One of the best boxers Ive ever seen to adapt to the MMA cage and rules. Gracie jiu jitsu. He could snatch up a gogoplata out of nowhere

 

[michi972]

yeah, I mentioned that earlier. Nate could've been LW champ under the right circumstances. The same is true for Tony Ferguson before Khabib got the belt. Nate was weird, though...beats MJ, prime Cerrone and others, but gets dominated by "split decision" Bendo and RDA...and LnP'd by Guida and head kicked to another dimension by Josh Thomson in his final MMA win.

Josh was an uncrowned champion from classic Benson split decision. Diaz should be the winner against Clay, decision should be on his side.

The point is Diaz Bros were elite top 5-10 fighters, who could beat several UFC champions. They obviously had holes in their games, but they were elite. Many people think that if fighter has for example 25-3, 25-5 record he's elite but 25-10 means average.

 

[michi972]

Nick’s UFC record 5-7-1, but should be 5-8

Nate’s UFC record 16-11

both got title fights and lost them.

i’d rate them as B level UFC fighters.

No B level fighter can force Condit to fight standing like that. No B level fighter can beat prime Conor and have him close match, outstrike prime MJ without takedown threat. Anyone in top 10 at lw and ww is A level fighter

 

[Vayn Sword]

Both are great fighters but I have to post this gif

 

[Aluminati]

Honestly we'll never know. A post-ACL injury GSP (who wasn't in his best form) beat him, but he was still GSP. Fights against Hendricks, Kos, Fitch, Pierce, even guys like Askren or Palhares would've been intersting, but all we can do is speculate. I'll give Nick credit for being incredibly tough and able to wear people down. I think he could beat some of those guys with a submission or by them wearing down first...but don't think he could beat all of them.

Nick hit a takedown, GnP'd, and subbed Gleason Tibau. He's had the skills to beat those kind of guys, he just wants to stand and bang anyways.

 

[mkt]

Josh was an uncrowned champion from classic Benson split decision. Diaz should be the winner against Clay, decision should be on his side.

The point is Diaz Bros were elite top 5-10 fighters, who could beat several UFC champions. They obviously had holes in their games, but they were elite. Many people think that if fighter has for example 25-3, 25-5 record he's elite but 25-10 means average.

Josh should've walked away Stikeforce as champion. His last fight with Gilbert Melendez there was more of a robbery than the Benson fight.

 

[mkt]

Nick hit a takedown, GnP'd, and subbed Gleason Tibau. He's had the skills to beat those kind of guys, he just wants to stand and bang anyways.

We don't know if he could do that consistently. Obviously it can work by surprise occasionally, though.

 

[NikLuk]

Nick was elite in his prime. That SF run was no joke.

Nates best run as far as skills was 2011-2012 i think. He worked his way up to a titleshot and was legit the #1 LW in the world at one point so yeah.

Well said. Nick's SF run was really good.

 

[jeff7b9]

Nick Diaz did ok in PrideFC