How good are the Diaz brothers?

[ryun253]

They were born to fight.

 

[Kb7]

yeah, I mentioned that earlier. Nate could've been LW champ under the right circumstances. The same is true for Tony Ferguson before Khabib got the belt. Nate was weird, though...beats MJ, prime Cerrone and others, but gets dominated by "split decision" Bendo and RDA...and LnP'd by Guida and head kicked to another dimension by Josh Thomson in his final MMA win.

Not weird at all, Nate has trouble with fighters who are wrestlers with solid top control and great sub defense. It's a style matchups.

 

[pankrat]

<{Red Card}>

 

[jooohnmatrix]

Nick had more potential but Nate made better decisions so became the more successful of the two. These guys had it all and honestly think their whole lives could have been better if they hadn’t spent the last twenty years high.

 

[Franklin U.]

Diaz were certainly elite, specially Nick, and it's not forumrats who say so but their peers, pundits and fellow elite fighters.

If he wasnt elite we would see "elite" fighters beat him handly and not just squeezing a controverial decision as Condit.
Condit himself would be the first to acknowledge Nick Diaz as elite.
Or wasnt Condit (who btw was the underdog coming into the fight) elite neither?

Who are the WWs from GSP generation who deserve to be called "elite" in your book? Given that putting such tag to Nick is "silly" accoding to you, I eager to see who are all those WWs in between GSP and Nick Diaz that deserve to be called elite.




Well, it seems that for some people, if you are not long time champion material you are relegated to gatekeeper status....

Lol- " beauty is in the eye of the beholder ".

I'm glad I have my eyes.....and I'll admit sometimes I'm a bit hard on fighters but, lol, not here.
Nate had lost every significant ( just sbout) fight at lightweight so if he's elite then you must consider a whole of fighters elite.
GTFO.
Nick might offer some legit debate but in hindsight, nah. Nick is a tick or 2 above Nate.

Let's not cheapen the word " elite". That's reserved for a circle of special fighters.

 

[pankrat]

Lol- " beauty is in the eye of the beholder ".

I'm glad I have my eyes.....and I'll admit sometimes I'm a bit hard on fighters but, lol, not here.
Nate had lost every significant ( just sbout) fight at lightweight so if he's elite then you must consider a whole of fighters elite.
GTFO.
Nick might offer some legit debate but in hindsight, nah. Nick is a tick or 2 above Nate.

Let's not cheapen the word " elite". That's reserved for a circle of special fighters.

That's a vague reply without adressing the matter and the very specific question I made:

Who are the WWs from GSP generation who deserve to be considered "elite" apart from GSP. Or not even GSP himself is worthy of such a sacred word?

 

[Franklin U.]

That's a vague reply without adressing the matter and the very specific question I made:

Who are the WWs from GSP generation who deserve to be considered "elite" apart from GSP. Or not even GSP himself is worthy of such a sacred word?

Because that's all that's needed. I don't need to answer your specific question in making MY point.

However- how about this ( your answer) - you can count them on half of one hand ....and Nick ain't one of them.
This probably why gsp is not in my top 5 goat.

 

[pankrat]

Because that's all that's needed. I don't need to answer your specific question in making MY point.
.

It's all you need if you approach debates in an autistic way, otherwise it's nothing.
It rather looks like you dodge the question in fear of it exposing your incoherences about the use yo do of the term "elite"

However- how about this ( your answer) - you can count them on half of one hand ....and Nick ain't one of them.
This probably why gsp is not in my top 5 goat.

Is your point that GSP didnt beat any elite WW in his career?
Nick Diaz was the favourite coming into his fight with #1 WW contender in Condit, which actually ended in a controversial dec
Nick Diaz was the favourite coming into his fight with another #1 WW contender in BJ, about as much of a favourite as another #1 WW contender in Jon Fitch vs the same opponent in the same year, only that Diaz actually handled him better
Nick Diaz finished the same guy who gave another #1 WW contender in Koshceck his tittle shot by decision.

Nick Diaz was an elite WW of his generation, period. And coming from a guy who labels Rich Franklin as elite, to go around pretending to be so purist about such label, writing off legitimate generational contenders right and left, is BS.
I DO consider Franklin elite btw, but I dont go around pretending to be so "elitist" about such term

 

[Joss]

Anybody in the UFC with wins belongs to elite MMA I would say.
Going to a decision with A. Silva in a higher weight class is already a level of greatness.
Beating Conor McGregor too.

 

[Franklin U.]

That's a vague reply without adressing the matter and the very specific question I made:

Who are the WWs from GSP generation who deserve to be considered "elite" apart from GSP. Or not even GSP himself is worthy of such a sacred word?

How about this as far simple criteria for an "elite "stamp.
Being a top 5 fighter ( in division) for a DECENT PART of your career.
I think that's fair and it makes " elite" mean something when said.

Nick's best wins are ...wait.....uh, wait ........Oh - a half his size BJ penn( who,lol, marked up the bigger Diaz pretty good) , Paul Daley ??? and Robbie Lawler when he was average and coming ( trying) up in the world.

I'll not move off this .I don't care about your infamous lengthy posts ( which sometimes are interesting and sometimes self satisfying and missing the mark on what you're actually talking about ).

In my world Nick Diaz is/was a respected quality fighter but not elite and if I'm being honest - not close.

Talk about evasion, you've forgotten about Nate ( lol) and your first sentence was both being elite.

Oh- and what does Rich Franklin have to do with this ?
I'm fairly certain I've never said anything over the top about Rich ( yes, rich qualifies as elite but he's on no goat list )

 

[pankrat]

How about this as far simple criteria for an "elite "stamp.
Being a top 5 fighter ( in division) for a DECENT PART of your career.
I think that's fair and it makes " elite" mean something when said.

Nick's best wins are ...wait.....uh, wait ........Oh - a half his size BJ penn( who,lol, marked up the bigger Diaz pretty good) , Paul Daley ??? and Robbie Lawler when he was average and coming ( trying) up in the world.

I'll not move off this .I don't care about your infamous lengthy posts ( which sometimes are interesting and sometimes self satisfying and missing the mark on what you're actually talking about ).

In my world Nick Diaz is/was a respected quality fighter but not elite and if I'm being honest - not close.

Talk about evasion, you've forgotten about Nate ( lol) and your first sentence was both being elite.

Being a top5 fighter based on who? Rankings? Nick Diaz was actually so for several years.
He was a top5 fighter during his stint as SF champ and top contender in UFC as evidenced by odds when he got matched up with other top5 fighters.

Then you retort to the classic shertard tactic of going through names in his fight finder. Dissapointing coming from you.
Who are the elite fighters Rich Franklin, who you consider elite, beat at 185? Evan Tanner?

I said Nick Diaz was absolutely, unquestionably, an elite WW of his generation. You say not even close and still at this point you refuse to name those WWs of his generation who you consider elite. Oh well...

Nate had worse losses not just because of fight finder but because he actually got KOed or soundly beaten in decisions that weren't any controversial during his prime, way more than Nick did.
Still,

Nate had lost every significant fight at lightweight so if he's elite then you must consider a whole of fighters elite.
GTFO.
.

 

[Franklin U.]

Anybody in the UFC with wins belongs to elite MMA I would say.
Going to a decision with A. Silva in a higher weight class is already a level of greatness.
Beating Conor McGregor too.

If you want to take it to this context then ok but then elite word gets stamped on hundreds of fighters .
That's not how I celebrate " elite" but that's me.

 

[Franklin U.]

Being a top5 fighter based on who? Rankings? Nick Diaz was actually so for several years.
He was a top5 fighter during his stint as SF champ and top contender in UFC as evidenced by odds when he got matched up with other top5 fighters.

Then you retort to the classic shertard tactic of going through names in his fight finder. Dissapointing coming from you.
Who are the elite fighters Rich Franklin, who you consider elite, beat at 185? Evan Tanner?

I said Nick Diaz was absolutely, unquestionably, an elite WW of his generation and still at this point you refuse to be name who are those WWs of his generation who you consider elite. Oh well...

Nate had worse losses not just because of fight finder but because he actually got KOed or soundly beaten in decisions that weren't any controversial during his prime, way more than Nick did.
Still,

Now you're just embarrassing yourself. Rich was a ufc champ and for a period of time, beat everyone who wasn't champ. He went to exchange wins and losses at light heavy against some pretty good fighters. Why are u bringing him into this?
Why do u do this - I never mentioned him and you put words in my mouth ( initially) for self serving reasons.
Lol.

Conor WAS elite and congratulations, you brought up Nates biggest win( lol-only) of his career .If not for that win - where would Nate be today ?
I'm not hating on Nate . I like Nate - he'll I like both Diaz.
I just can't, with a straight face, call them elite fighters ...especially Nate.

If you want to cheapen " elite " then ok. In your world, you have paramount respect for most who have fought in UFC and willing to open that door for Diaz brothers.

Nick is a legend in this sport but that doesn't make him " elite" .

Do you -at least- understand my world ?

 

[Franklin U.]

Being a top5 fighter based on who? Rankings? Nick Diaz was actually so for several years.
He was a top5 fighter during his stint as SF champ and top contender in UFC as evidenced by odds when he got matched up with other top5 fighters.

Then you retort to the classic shertard tactic of going through names in his fight finder. Dissapointing coming from you.
Who are the elite fighters Rich Franklin, who you consider elite, beat at 185? Evan Tanner?

I said Nick Diaz was absolutely, unquestionably, an elite WW of his generation. You say not even close and still at this point you refuse to name those WWs of his generation who you consider elite. Oh well...

Nate had worse losses not just because of fight finder but because he actually got KOed or soundly beaten in decisions that weren't any controversial during his prime, way more than Nick did.
Still,

Lol- you do understand operative words " just about"

 

[pankrat]

Now you're just embarrassing yourself. Rich was a ufc champ and for a period of time, beat everyone who wasn't champ. He went to exchange wins and losses at light heavy against some pretty good fighters. Why are u bringing him into this?
Why do u do this - I never mentioned him and you put words in my mouth ( initially) for self serving reasons.
Lol.

Conor WAS elite and congratulations, you brought up Nates biggest win( lol-only) of his career .If not for that win - where would Nate be today ?
I'm not hating on Nate . I like Nate - he'll I like both Diaz.
I just can't, with a straight face, call them elite fighters ...especially Nate.

If you want to cheapen " elite " then ok. In your world, you have paramount respect for most who have fought in UFC and willing to open that door for Diaz brothers.

Nick is a legend in this sport but that doesn't make him " elite" .

Do you -at least- understand my world ?

I think your word is heavily biased and way too much backed on alleged rankings and stats on paper.
It reminds me of these sherbros who discredit Mousasi by saying "where is his UFC belt" "who is his best ranked win" and BS of that kind

I referenced Rich Franklin because I knew you consider him elite and it serves the purpose of exposing your incoherency around such term in this thread.
You seem to not acknowldge UFC was not the premier org when Franklin was champ and that he actually was defending his tittle vs guys outside the top5 (casually, the same argument you ask for in this debate). Do you even know who Loisaeu or Quarry beat to get the tittle shot in the first place? Yeah, exactly.

Paul Daley for the Strikeforce belt was as much of a legitimate win if not more than Loiseau or Quarry at the time. Yes, if you were following the sport you would know.

Let's not get into how both Diaz and Rich handled Anderson and particularly his clinch despite the 30lbs gap between one and other. Let's not get into dettail about respective level of technique all toguether lol because the tag elite for one and not even close for the other would be ridiculously hard to back up.

 

[pankrat]

Lol- you do understand operative words " just about"

In top of Conor, he also beat Gomi, Miller and Cerrone in a row to get a UFC title shot, being top5 ranked in the process.

Proceed to make fun of them while pretending to sell Quarry, Tanner and Loiseau as "elite" worthy because...yeah, you know

Still, I do think he wasnt as good as his brother

 

[Franklin U.]

I think your word is heavily biased and way too much backed on alleged rankings and stats on paper.
It reminds me of these sherbros who discredit Mousasi by saying "where is his UFC belt" "who is his best ranked win" and BS of that kind

I referenced Rich Franklin because I knew you consider him elite and it serves the purpose of exposing your incoherency around such term in this thread.
You seem to not acknowldge UFC was not the premier org when Franklin was champ and that he actually was defending his tittle vs guys outside the top5 (casually, the same argument you ask for in this debate). Do you even know who Loisaeu or Quarry beat to get the tittle shot in the first place? Yeah, exactly.

Paul Daley for the Strikeforce belt was as much of a legitimate win if not more than Loiseau or Quarry at the time. Yes, if you were following the sport you would know.

Let's not get into how both Diaz and Rich handled Anderson and particularly his clinch despite the 30lbs gap between one and other. Let's not get into dettail about respective level of technique all toguether lol because the tag elite for one and not even close for the other would be ridiculously hard to back up.

Wow - you just lost all credibility with me. You're playing trivia with me ??? ( I've " probably " been a part of this longer than u).
I won't go there.

You just compared Anderson ( vs Diaz) and when thee Anderson scorched Rich....twice.

WOW !
SMH

That's what we call using mma math from someone that knows nothing from nothing( I really don't feel that about you but HAD TO POST).

I'm about to go " deadpool" on you.... you don't want that ( I could be a funny guy ....sometimes)

 

[Franklin U.]

In top of Conor, he also beat Gomi, Miller and Cerrone in a row to get a UFC title shot, being top5 ranked in the process.

Proceed to make fun of them while pretending to sell Quarry, Tanner and Loiseau as "elite" worthy because...yeah, you know

Still, I do think he wasnt as good as his brother

I said " decent " part of career you tool. Then everyone who earned a shot is " elite".

Lol, you keep on doing that .That's like cheating in a debate.
YOU DO IT ALL THE TIME.

You keep on mentioning MULTIPLE TITLE FIGHTS AND DEFENSES.
( thank you ????)

 

[FriskyRandy]

They're both icons of the sport. In their primes, both elite. When Nick was in his prime he was the most exciting guy in MMA for me.

 

[pankrat]

I said " decent " part of career you tool. Then everyone who earned a shot is " elite".

Why do you insult?
Did I insult you? Do not lose your cool, it doesnt make you look good

A guy who gets a tittle shot, plus has a win - arguably two - over Conor in his prime and remains in UFC rankings for more than a decade yes, has a case to be called "elite".

And Nick Diaz, Strikeforce and WEC champ, UFC tittle contender and universally recognized as top WW for many years, even more.
Much more so when you acknowledge such status to Rich Franklin for defending a certain belt vs guys outside the top5