How French Intellectuals Ruined the West, postmodernism and its impact explained

[Liquid Smoke]

Doesn't postmodernism have some tie to Freudianism? Are we blaming the correct Eurotrash here?

 

[Bullitt68]

Postmodernism and Poststructuralism are gems of humanity. It's a shame that the intellectually barren will never understand that.

Doesn't postmodernism have some tie to Freudianism?

Yes, but since nothing is ever simple with poststructuralism/postmodernism, it's more complicated than that.

Leaving poststructuralism and people like Barthes, Derrida, and Foucault off to the side for the moment, postmodernism comes primarily from Jean-François Lyotard. Lyotard was influenced early on by the French psychoanalyst Jacques Lacan. Lacan's project was to approach Freud via the structural linguistics of Ferdinand de Saussure and the structural anthropology of Claude Lévi-Strauss.

Personally, I'd separate Lacan from the mess of nonsense that is poststructuralism and postmodernism, as he seemed to be far more genuine, particularly in his later work, in his quest to understand the nature of the relationship between consciousness and the unconscious. But thanks to people like Lyotard and, more than anyone else, Louis Althusser, postmodernism basically consists of a poorly understood and transparently cherry-picked Lacanian Freudianism combined with Marxism.

 

[Rod1]

I totally agree that the dynamic between conservatism and liberalism has kept the world moving forward. 100% I agree. It's also why I become so frustrated when right wing bullet points dominate some circles because it throws sand and gravel into that dynamic.
In the same way the article is saying the left has bin adopting ideas that is damaging that dynamic. In no way is he saying to compromise with the far right but rather move away from post modern thinking and communicate on more traditional liberal values and the result will be more productive.
Article doesn't give conservatives any credit that I can see, but he is addressing issues that a lot of liberals here have already bin critical of. What I see him doing is identifying the roots of ideas that many liberals in sherdog don't like about the far left. By doing so it makes it easier for anyone interested in cause and effect to move forward intelligently.

Lack of compromise leads to a struggle and a struggle leads to compromise. Its normal.

Remember when some libbies told everyone that black people should have the same rights as whites and not be slaves and conservatives said that they should totally be slaves?

That led to a struggle and after that struggle came the "separate but equal" compromise .

 

[Liquid Smoke]

Yes, but since nothing is ever simple with poststructuralism/postmodernism, it's more complicated than that.

Leaving poststructuralism and people like Barthes, Derrida, and Foucault off to the side for the moment, postmodernism comes primarily from Jean-François Lyotard. Lyotard was influenced early on by the French psychoanalyst Jacques Lacan. Lacan's project was to approach Freud via the structural linguistics of Ferdinand de Saussure and the structural anthropology of Claude Lévi-Strauss.

Personally, I'd separate Lacan from the mess of nonsense that is poststructuralism and postmodernism, as he seemed to be far more genuine, particularly in his later work, in his quest to understand the nature of the relationship between consciousness and the unconscious. But thanks to people like Lyotard and, more than anyone else, Louis Althusser, postmodernism basically consists of a poorly understood and transparently cherry-picked Lacanian Freudianism combined with Marxism.

 

[Limbo Pete]

Hey guys what's going on in this th-

Spoiler

 

[unimackpass]

Lack of compromise leads to a struggle and a struggle leads to compromise. Its normal.

Remember when some libbies told everyone that black people should have the same rights as whites and not be slaves and conservatives said that they should totally be slaves?

That led to a struggle and after that struggle came the "separate but equal" compromise .

Not painting with a big brush here are we?

I could say something like, ya but some people took awhile to change their mind like the grand dragon Bird who I think was a friend of Hillary, but I would rather move forward.

But I agree with the struggle and compromise, it's a must.

What do you think about the actual content of the article? No one has yet to address content.

 

[unimackpass]

Yes, but since nothing is ever simple with poststructuralism/postmodernism, it's more complicated than that.

Leaving poststructuralism and people like Barthes, Derrida, and Foucault off to the side for the moment, postmodernism comes primarily from Jean-François Lyotard. Lyotard was influenced early on by the French psychoanalyst Jacques Lacan. Lacan's project was to approach Freud via the structural linguistics of Ferdinand de Saussure and the structural anthropology of Claude Lévi-Strauss.

Personally, I'd separate Lacan from the mess of nonsense that is poststructuralism and postmodernism, as he seemed to be far more genuine, particularly in his later work, in his quest to understand the nature of the relationship between consciousness and the unconscious. But thanks to people like Lyotard and, more than anyone else, Louis Althusser, postmodernism basically consists of a poorly understood and transparently cherry-picked Lacanian Freudianism combined with Marxism.

Like you say, nothing is ever simple in these waters.

Seriously interested in your opinion about the content in this article. I'm not going all or nothing here but it seems there are some valid points.

 

[unimackpass]

What do you consider is the greatest contributions of postmodernism to humanity?

Why do you think people that criticize postmodernism are intellectually barren?

Yes, please tell us.

 

[luckyshot]

Those poststructuralists are plainly the primary scourge of American society today with their pinko ways...

If you look at what is currently happening on the Federal level and the majority of the states... they are CLEARLY running the show...

(Drill baby dill, build the wall, bomb ‘em all and let Allah sort ‘em out, emirite?)

 

[Necromantic]

French intellectuals created "western society" in the first place, so rest assured they can do whatever the fuck they want.

LOL, no they didn't.

Greeks created western society. Read up on your history.

 

[Bullitt68]

Like you say, nothing is ever simple in these waters.

And, pathetically enough, often by design.



That hits the nail so hard and squarely on the head that it's frightening.

Seriously interested in your opinion about the content in this article. I'm not going all or nothing here but it seems there are some valid points.

I agree with your OP: Intelligent breakdown of postmodernism/poststructuralism and its many problems from a reasonable standpoint.

"Postmodernism has become a Lyotardian metanarrative, a Foucauldian system of discursive power, and a Derridean oppressive hierarchy."

That part's the key IMO. Someone sympathetic to postmodernism/poststructuralism will suffer from relentless contradictions that'll seem to crop up at every turn, and, if they still value their minds and respect reason, then they'll find that frustrating. But someone who isn't just sympathetic but who is a postmodernist/poststructuralist will hang their hat on a belief system that's utterly self-refuting. And the kicker is that not only will they not be bothered by that, they'll consider it proof that they've reached profundity.

"The logical problem of self-referentiality has been pointed out to postmodernists by philosophers fairly constantly but it is one they have yet to address convincingly."

If I were to criticize anything, it'd be this part. She seems to still want to give them the benefit of the doubt. The point to be made isn't that they've "yet to address" this problem, but rather, that they don't consider it a problem...AND THAT THAT'S THE PROBLEM.

"In order to regain credibility, the Left needs to recover a strong, coherent and reasonable liberalism. To do this, we need to out-discourse the postmodern-Left."

QFT. I wish her and every other sane Leftist the best. And, for my part, I'm going to keep trying to provide as much ammunition as possible to shoot holes through the nonsense that is postmodernism/poststructuralism.

 

[EZShrimpn]

"It has become commonplace to note that the far-Right is now using identity politics and epistemic relativism in a very similar way to the postmodern-Left.

Of course they have, they are powerful rhetorical tools. Their widespread adoption on the left was akin to an escalation of hostilities. After getting slaughtered pretending they're arguing with co-nationals who want to talk about marginal tax rates or some other pointless minutiae they learned their lesson not to bring a nerf bat to a border town gunfight.

 

[Cubo de Sangre]

they created anal

Created or popularized?

 

[Liquid Smoke]

Those poststructuralists are plainly the primary scourge of American society today with their pinko ways...

If you look at what is currently happening on the Federal level and the majority of the states... they are CLEARLY running the show...

(Drill baby dill, build the wall, bomb ‘em all and let Allah sort ‘em out, emirite?)

You're fucking insane.

 

[Pupi]

What do you consider is the greatest contributions of postmodernism to humanity?

Why do you think people that criticize postmodernism are intellectually barren?

I explained it in the first sentence of the post you quoted. Not only that, but Poststructuralists led the 1960s cultural revolution in America and have outlined radical intellectual thought since then.

Doesn't postmodernism have some tie to Freudianism? Are we blaming the correct Eurotrash here?

Lacanianism, yes, which is an expansion of Freud.

Yes, but since nothing is ever simple with poststructuralism/postmodernism, it's more complicated than that.

Leaving poststructuralism and people like Barthes, Derrida, and Foucault off to the side for the moment, postmodernism comes primarily from Jean-François Lyotard. Lyotard was influenced early on by the French psychoanalyst Jacques Lacan. Lacan's project was to approach Freud via the structural linguistics of Ferdinand de Saussure and the structural anthropology of Claude Lévi-Strauss.

Personally, I'd separate Lacan from the mess of nonsense that is poststructuralism and postmodernism, as he seemed to be far more genuine, particularly in his later work, in his quest to understand the nature of the relationship between consciousness and the unconscious. But thanks to people like Lyotard and, more than anyone else, Louis Althusser, postmodernism basically consists of a poorly understood and transparently cherry-picked Lacanian Freudianism combined with Marxism.

No, I'm not kidding you. poststructuralism is complicated, but I think it and critical theory (Frankfurt school) provide the best methods to get closer to the truth.

Lacan can't be separated from poststructuralism and neither can Barthes, Derrida, Marcuse, Habermas, or Foucault. They are pillars of the system of thought. Same thing goes for Zizek nowadays since he is leading the way alongside Homi Bhaba, Judith Butler, and Laclau.

 

[Liquid Smoke]

Created or popularized?

I prefer to say discovered.

 

[Cubo de Sangre]

I prefer to say discovered.

Somehow I doubt it took dudes with dicks too long to figure out where they could put 'em. Just how far back do we think the Greeks go in the scheme of human evolution?

 

[InternetHero]

nah that was the greeks.

Greeks, Romans, Judeo-Christians, Renaissance thinkers, Reformation thinkers, English thinkers, French thinkers, American thinkers, and here we are more or less.

The Continental European line of succession would be different, and far too German.

 

[JosephDredd]

All your expectations were met, ok.

"The rise of populism and nationalism in the US and across Europe are also due to a strong existing far-Right and the fear of Islamism produced by the refugee crisis. Taking a rigidly “anti-SJW” stance and blaming everything on this element of the Left is itself rife with motivated reasoning and confirmation bias. The Left is not responsible for the far-Right or the religious-Right or secular nationalism, but it is responsible for not engaging with reasonable concerns reasonably and thereby making itself harder for reasonable people to support.

This is a troubling phrase. I'm assuming he means that if they were reasonable they would act like he wants them to.

It is responsible for its own fragmentation, purity demands and divisiveness which make even the far-Right appear comparatively coherent and cohesive."

How can he possibly call the far-right less fragmented than the left? When was this written? If it wasn't written before Trump entered politics, I think this guy's talking out his ass. The leadership and the rank and file of the left are much more cohesive than the right. The right, to be precise, is in a state of turmoil that I have literally never seen in my life or even in my wildest fantasies. It started when the Republican leaders vowed to fight tooth and nail against their own candidate (promising to run as independents or vote the the Democrat) and are now retiring in massive numbers to get away from the Trump shitstorm.

 

[InternetHero]

Yeah the American right has more coalitions to deal with - Business Conservatives who act as the money-men and party leaders then varying factions of Social Conservatives, Evangelicals, moderate Libertarians, and the New Right.

Their views are often divergent.