How far would the Mongolian empire have reached?

I haven't brushed up much on Mongolian history, but didn't the empire fall because of poor management skills? Like the empire got too grande and they couldn't maintain it properly?
 
Zankou said:
By coincidence a great new article was just published on the military superiority of the steppes peoples relative to sedentary civilizations. Highly recommend.

https://www.academia.edu/14470689/The_Eurasian_Steppe_Nomads_in_World_Military_History
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That is an auspicious coincidence indeed, Zankou. Thanks for posting!

But this can hardly be new conclusions, can it?:icon_chee

EDIT: Reading the relatively short article would be a great and informative read for a lot of people. Basically crash-course in what nomad military life was like.
 
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Pugilistic said:
I watched 2 episodes and was disappointed. I guess I expecting HBO level quality.
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first two episodes suck, picks up from there. I thought the same thing
 
Lost said:
first two episodes suck, picks up from there. I thought the same thing
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Hm..I'll give it another go then. The naked chick doing martial arts and killing 3 guys really threw me off. As did the fight between Kublai and his brother. Such a poorly choreographed fight.
 
Pugilistic said:
Hm..I'll give it another go then. The naked chick doing martial arts and killing 3 guys really threw me off. As did the fight between Kublai and his brother. Such a poorly choreographed fight.
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Agreed, I laughed really hard during the naked fight scene.
 
AGGAMEMNON66 said:
Imma read this later, thanks for posting.




And for fun...


Same size force of Huns Vs same size force of Mongols.. who takes it?

Attila (sp) leads the Huns, Genghis (sp) leads the Mongol
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Mongols. Huns on roids.
 
europe1 said:
Nah. People underestimate just how difficult it was for settled communities to muster horse archers. Becoming such a skilled rider that you can shoot while galloping is something you have to spend a lifetime at (which the Mongols did). Hell, even the Seljuks of Anatolia would stop their horses and THEN fire their bows simply becuse how risky it was to do both at once. And those guys where way better horsemen than anything you'd find in Central/Western Europe. No way Europeans would have managed to master such a fighting-style.



This kinda works under the assumption that the Mongols liked fighting pitched battles. They didn't. The Mongols harrased an opponent until death. They feinted retreat and made hit-and-run tactics. They fought wars, not battles.

They managed to pull of such highly complicated strategies becuse of how insanely disciplined and organized they where. You have to understand, things like this simply weren't done in Medieval Warfare. The Europeans and others assumed they where fighting deamons when they saw how swiftly the Mongol armies advanced and the syncronization that they did it with.

The Mongol army was a well-oiled fighting machine, with a clear chain-of-command. Compare this to Europe, where every Nobleman had his own private army (and commanded said private army). It would have been impossible for a bunch of in-fighting noblemen to pull off the sophisticated manuvers necessary to counter the Mongols highly mobile tactics. They simply did not have the military orginazation to do so. The host would begin to fall apart under the stress of the Mongols harrasments, with individual nobels fleeing/defecting/or storming off right into another Mongol trap.

Also, the Mongols where masters of Divide-and-Conquer. They allied with one ruler while toppling another ruler. I do not think that the scattered, belligerat European states would be able to unite against such a force. Pope or no-Pope.



Also... it's not like English longbowmen (the only bow that could out-reach the Mongol bow in Europe) existed in abundance. And training to be an English longbowman was also a lifetime job. Nor would the English monarch's have any real incentive to go off and fight Mongols in Germany or France.
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I was more talkig about mounted crossbow men and the like. The Europeans were already fielding large amounts of ranged troops, countering steppe horse archers by mounting their own ranged troops is something the Europeans did do, and is only logical. Would they match the Mongols, no, but they don't need to in order to win a war of attrition.

Even so, yes mongols were untouchable in the field due to their mobility and lethality. However, their infranty was surely not much better than standard European fare, and the western heavy infranty would of been superior. Every city had at least a wall, so every one would need to be taken by storm, and the whole area was far less densely populated (and thus containing less wealth) than the Chinese and middle eastern empires.

No position is unassailable given the resources but Europeans ensured the cost was never worth the gain.


Again, they could throw down the Europeans in the field and lay siege to every town and city but for what gain? Storming European fortresses as a Mongol would require enslaved or bought European troops, the use of either of which will be more costly than the endeavour would be worth. You either hold Europe as a European (and lose it within a generation as it unites to reassert the power balance or you return to the steppe before the cost of holding Europe bankrupts you).
 
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The Russian army employed Bashkir and Kalmyk horse archers against Napoleon, in a manner similar to the Mongols. The French called them cupids.

This article is ridiculous in that it makes the cupids look a lot tougher than they were, but it's still a fun read.

https://www.rbth.com/arts/2014/07/29/how_russias_steppe_warriors_took_on_napoleons_armies_37029

"As one French officer recalled, “They flew around our troops like a swarm of wasps, darting in on all sides. It was tough keeping up with them, and the attacks came again and again as the barbarians surrounded our squadrons, firing clouds of arrows to their war cries.”
 
This sounds familiar

In 1949, as Communist troops advanced, the Nationalist soldiers moved it another 200 km (120 mi) farther west to the famous Tibetan monastery of Kumbum Monastery or Ta'er Shi near Xining, which soon fell under Communist control. In early 1954, Genghis Khan's bier and relics were returned to the Lord's Enclosure in Mongolia. By 1956 a new temple was erected there to house them.[70] In 1968 during the Cultural Revolution, Red Guards destroyed almost everything of value.
 
Aegon Spengler said:
The Russian army employed Bashkir and Kalmyk horse archers against Napoleon, in a manner similar to the Mongols. The French called them cupids.

This article is ridiculous in that it makes the cupids look a lot tougher than they were, but it's still a fun read.

https://www.rbth.com/arts/2014/07/29/how_russias_steppe_warriors_took_on_napoleons_armies_37029

"As one French officer recalled, “They flew around our troops like a swarm of wasps, darting in on all sides. It was tough keeping up with them, and the attacks came again and again as the barbarians surrounded our squadrons, firing clouds of arrows to their war cries.”
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This is what I'm picturing...

disgruntled-cupid-7395813.jpg
 
IndyCovaHart said:
Another WoW thread resurrected. Lol
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I debated doing my own thread on all things mongol but then i thought: "Perhaps Sherdog already has a mongol thread", so I googled and found this one. And lo and behold I had even posted in the freakin thread, although I don't remember posting any of this. I was drinking a lot more in 2015 I guess
 
Why did the TS get banned? He seems like a wonderful person and I bet he is very handsome in real life, as well.
 
They expanded a lot after Genghis Khan died so clearly that’s not true why they didn’t expand west

Edit: just realized this was a really old bump by the TS trying to let us know his knew account name for the one person who hadn’t figured it out yet
 
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