How does Leon's reign stacks up against other welterweights?

[achoo42]

This is what I think:

1. GSP
2. Usman
3. Hughes (almost interchangeable with Usman)
4. Woodley
5. Edwards
6. Lawler
7. Miletich
8. Penn
9. Hendricks
10. Newton
11. Serra

It's very close between Lawler and Edwards. I have Edwards higher because he won his belt by finishing an all-time great, and his wins over Colby and Usman are more decisive than Lawler's wins over Hendricks and Condit, which are two of the more controversial decisions in UFC history. The Rory win was also razor close even though Robbie finished him.

 

[chinarice]

You have Georges at 1 then 2 is very, very distant.

 

[RockyLockridge]

I would not put Edwards or woodley over lawler.

I'd also not put Usman over Hughes

 

[TheTickG]

This is what I think:

1. GSP
2. Usman
3. Hughes
4. Woodley
5. Edwards
6. Lawler
7. Miletich
8. Penn
9. Hendricks
10. Newton
11. Serra

It's very close between Lawler and Edwards. I have Edwards higher because he won his belt by finishing an all-time great, and his wins over Colby and Usman are more decisive than Lawler's wins over Hendricks and Condit, which are two of the more controversial decisions in UFC history. The Rory win was also razor close even though Robbie finished him.

Miletich should be 4. The rest of your list looks good.

 

[Tweak896]

I think your list is perfect. You can make an argument that Hughes should be over Usman, but truth is it's hard to compare Usman having to get a long winning streak to earn a title shot vs an era where a couple wins got you a title shot. Leon has to be put behind Woodley, is where his championship ranking at WW is fair. Maybe you could argue that Lawler should be above Leon, but depends how you rank Usman 2x/Colby vs Hendricks/Rory/Condit.

 

[achoo42]

Miletich should be 5. The rest of your list looks good.

Miletich is not going above Lawler or Edwards for beating guys like Mikey Burnett and Andre Pederneiras who didn't even fight 5 times before fighting for the welterweight title.

 

[achoo42]

I would not put Edwards or woodley over lawler.

I'd also not put Usman over Hughes

I get Usman and Hughes, to me they are interchangeable.

But I see zero argument for Lawler being over Woodley, and very little for him being over Edwards. Can you explain your thought process here?

 

[HHJ]

1. GSP
2. Belal
3. Hughes
4. Usman
5. Woodley
6. Lawler
7. Miletich
8. Penn
9. Hendricks
10. Newton
11. Leon

 

[TJH Exitium]

Lawler > Edwards

 

[blaseblase]

Didn't you guys have Leon ahead of Woodley prior to last night?

I don't know how many times it has to be said, but never judge a title reign while it is still happening.

 

[DOMMA]

Regardless of his position, it was not an impressive run. Beat an aging Usman with bad knees and an old washed up Colby. Nearly lost the fight before winning the title to journeyman Diaz. He beat two top ranked guys in his career; RDA and Usman, both past their primes.

It appears after getting dominated by Belal that Leon was a bit over-rated.

.....this is not a "he lost so he must suck" take, the truth is he fought Usman at the right time (late in his career) and then fought a over the hill Colby. His first fight against a solid, not great, contender, and got beat badly.

 

[RockyLockridge]

I get Usman and Hughes, to me they are interchangeable.

But I see zero argument for Lawler being over Woodley, and very little for him being over Edwards. Can you explain your thought process here?

yeah I can

Robbie Lawler has 2 career wins over rory macdonald who is a better fighter than more or less anyone usman has fought. Even woodley lost to Macdonald badly and Lawler beat him twice and finished him in the most epic fight in WW history (i know that last part does not contribute to my argument here, but that fights amazing and it must be stated.)

Also beating Hendricks was a huge feat at the time as hendricks had obviously gone neck and neck with Georges. Some argue lawler beat him the first time too. the fight with condit is a very contentious one as well, however I still believe condit to be better than some of the people usman or woodley fought (Till, Masvidal, Colby)

Overall, lawler was fighting and beating better fighters than they were. I dont let numbers like 5 title fights fool me. Usman had 3 challengers he beat, Colby being the best of them. Woodley fought 3 stinker fights with wonderboy and maia none of which were impressive, some of which weren't wins, and one of which should have been a loss (Woodley vs Thompson) Only contender he beat in his prime was Till. Which was a good win I wont take from him.

Lawler was beating better fighters, Who were younger than him, while they were in their primes


I See it like

George

POWER GAP

Hughes
Usman
Lawler

 

[achoo42]

yeah I can

Robbie Lawler has 2 career wins over rory macdonald who is a better fighter than more or less anyone usman has fought. Even woodley lost to Macdonald badly and Lawler beat him twice and finished him in the most epic fight in WW history (i know that last part does not contribute to my argument here, but that fights amazing and it must be stated.)

But Usman is better than Rory, so what's your point here?

Also beating Hendricks was a huge feat at the time as hendricks had obviously gone neck and neck with Georges. Some argue lawler beat him the first time too. the fight with condit is a very contentious one as well, however I still believe condit to be better than some of the people usman or woodley fought (Till, Masvidal, Colby)

But why are you talking about the people Usman fought? Usman is better win than any of Lawler's wins, end of story. He was on one of the longest win streaks in UFC history and looked unbeatable. I don't see the point you're trying to make.

Overall, lawler was fighting and beating better fighters than they were. I dont let numbers like 5 title fights fool me. Usman had 3 challengers he beat, Colby being the best of them. Woodley fought 3 stinker fights with wonderboy and maia none of which were impressive, some of which weren't wins, and one of which should have been a loss (Woodley vs Thompson) Only contender he beat in his prime was Till. Which was a good win I wont take from him.

We're talking about Lawler vs Edwards. Not Lawler vs. Usman. Unless you're arguing that Lawler was a better WW than Usman which is just plain false.

Lawler was beating better fighters, Who were younger than him, while they were in their primes

Beating better fighters than a win over Usman...?

I seriously don't understand your argument here.

It boils down to Leon beating Usman x2 and Colby, versus Lawler beating Condit, Rory, and Hendricks. Very clearly Usman x2 is the better win.

 

[CrimsonFan]

I have Lawler higher than Woodley and Edwards.

His reign was violent and he was there to throw down. That shit matters in prize fighting. If you're gonna fight to win on points, you gotta really string some wins together before anyone is going to give a shit

 

[RockyLockridge]

He was on one of the longest win streaks in UFC history and looked unbeatable. I don't see the point you're trying to make.

I'm not sure what fights you're watching but Usman did not look unbeatable by any means. many people had him down 3-1 against colby (score cards had one like that and 2 that were 2-2) In the rematch some say it was close enough to be a draw. It was a very very close fight. Burns had dropped him aswell.... he did not look unbeatable by any stretch of the imagination. He looked untakedownable though, i'll give you that.

I understand usman > lawler because how long usman went unbeaten, fine. but Lawler is over woodley because he fought better fighters than Usman or Woodley. Usman only has longevity and winstreak on his side. nothing else puts him above even lawler. He's also over Leon, because outside of the usman fights (which round per round, he lost more rounds than he won in those 2 fights) and the fight with colby he doesn't have many impressive wins against top guys at WW. Even Nate diaz put him on skates and I'm sorry, I expect a top 5 WW to finish nate diaz at any time.

 

[Only Here for Attachments]

GSP, Hughes, Lawler, everyone else

 

[WokeWarrior]

Woodley is clearly number 3 or 4 get outta here with this bias crap.
now suddenly pat militech a dude i aint hear in like forever is number 3 or 4 man get on with that.
only due to nostalgia purposes ill understand if some put matt over woodley but woodley is top 4 in WW history

the only acceptable list is

Usman/GSP for 1 and 2
Woodley /Matt for 3 and 4

 

[achoo42]

This is totally biased. Yes, I understand that Lawler was the most exciting welterweight champ of all time, but you gotta do better than this.

He's also over Leon, because outside of the usman fights (which round per round, he lost more rounds than he won in those 2 fights)

And round per round many people believe Lawler lost more rounds than he won in his entire championship reign. He was losing to Rory, he robbed Condit, and he robbed Hendricks, according to lots of people. At least Leon finished the fight he was losing.

and the fight with colby he doesn't have many impressive wins against top guys at WW.

Oh, come on. You can't say "besides his 3 impressive wins, he has no impressive wins."

Watch me do that with Lawler. "Besides his wins over Hendricks, Condit, and Rory Mac, Lawler has no impressive wins."

Doesn't that just sound stupid?

But seriously, who else did Robbie beat? Melvin Manhoef? Josh Koscheck? The ghost of Matt Lindland? It's not like these wins are much better than Leon beating Vicente Luque, old RDA, or Gunnar Nelson.

Even Nate diaz put him on skates and I'm sorry, I expect a top 5 WW to finish nate diaz at any time.

Yes and I expect a top 5 WW to finish Lorenzo Larkin. Oh wait, he lost to Larkin. And Tim Kennedy. And Jacare Souza. And Shields, Babalu, etc. Lawler was losing to top welterweights for a very long time. And you're criticizing Leon's performance against Diaz? At least he wins fights.

Think about these things for just a second before you respond, please.

 

[Lepo Lepo]

Fitch would’ve dismantled Leon.

 

[ArtardFiesta]

1. GSP
2. Tie with Usman and Hughes. Usmans competition sucked during his defenses which is why you can argue for hughes
3. Robbie Lawler
4. Tie between Leon and Twood. Twood is this low because his reign was full of poor defense performances