How Does a Fighter Break in to the Top 10?

[Siver!]

Is there someone specific that you think is more deserving?

For #10?

I wouldn't have moved him up at all. Everyone around him in the rankings has better wins, and virtually all defeats were against higher calibre opposition than anyone Umar has ever fought.

I don't think he's a can crusher, but relatively speaking he is.

 

[Siver!]

Umar at this point deserves ranked opposition, that's undeniable. Lol @ Vinicius calling him out, why would you take that seriously? He doesn't deserve that fight at all, regardless of how flashy the knockout he just had was. The "plenty of guys" who will fight him are all unranked guys who have nothing to lose asking for that fight.

Also, how can we talk about Lok Dog being an undeserving LOL opponent when he just fought a guy on his UFC debut without ANY wins or ANY KO's?

Vinicius is a step up from Bekzat per his UFC career lmao

 

[svmr_db]

Also, how can we talk about Lok Dog being an undeserving LOL opponent when he just fought a guy on his UFC debut without ANY wins or ANY KO's?

Vinicius is a step up from Bekzat per his UFC career lmao

Umar wanted to fight in March, who knows who turned him down or who was available?

Vinicius was 19-3 going into his UFC debut, Bekzat was 11-1 (allegedly lol) it's not so easy to gauge who is a better opponent.

Which ranked fighters turned him down? Like flat out said no?

Probably Dominick Cruz, we all know he's just squatting on his spot. He should be removed from the rankings imo. Rob Font probably wants no part of him too which is understandable somewhat. Everyone else ranked at BW is either booked or have just fought recently so who knows what offers were made for opponents available to fight Umar.

 

[Tweak896]

Because fighters can duck, you can have the top 10 filled with guys who have lost/won/lost/won and still ranked ahead of guys who are 10-0 and beat every fighter for every round. Atleast rankings require a little critical thinking skills. If someone looks like Anderson Silva and matrix dodges 1st round finishes every guy for 5 fights, then should be ranked pretty high. Why should a guy who gets destroyed in 2 top 5 fights be ranked higher than someone who smashes top 15 to make them look amateur?

 

[BJJ4Tone]

For #10?

I wouldn't have moved him up at all. Everyone around him in the rankings has better wins, and virtually all defeats were against higher calibre opposition than anyone Umar has ever fought.

I don't think he's a can crusher, but relatively speaking he is.

Gotcha. Just curious.
I am of the mindset that any UFC win is a quality win, given the general high-level of fighter and just the nature of MMA and how easily even a "better" fighter can lose a fight at any moment.
So being 5-0 in the UFC, to me, is very impressive, even if the fighters he's beaten weren't highly-ranked. For instance, Bekzat may actually be a very, very good fighter, but we just haven't seen enough of him. His only two losses are to fighters who are 17-0 and 18-2.
So as far as Umar's ranking is concerned, because he's undefeated and all the fighters below him have recently lost, I am ok with him at #10.
Johnathan Martinez maybe has an argument. He's on a 6-fight win streak.
Heck, BOTH of them should be ranked ahead of Rob Font, who has lost FOUR-OF-FIVE, for Christ's sake. <45>

 

[blaseblase]

Buddy.

THE DAY BEFORE McGregor/Siver was announced Siver was ranked 10th(11th): https://web.archive.org/web/20141022092859/http://www.ufc.com:80/rankings
7 DAYS AFTER McGregor/Siver was announced Siver was ranked 8th(9th): https://web.archive.org/web/20141030164635/http://www.ufc.com/rankings

He jumped up 2 spots in the span of a week for literally doing nothing... except be scheduled to fight Conor.

Because the 10th ranked fighter on the the UFC rankings is actually the 11th ranked fighter in the division (the champion is the #1 ranked fighter), the UFC bumped up Siver to be an undeniable top 10 win for Conor. It's that simple.

If you want to live outside of reality you go for it.

Try actually reading the post you're replying to
Let me try putting it in bold.

10/30/14 - KZ is removed from rankings due to military service.

https://web.archive.org/web/20141030164635/https://www.ufc.com/rankings

You see the part where a fighter was no longer in the UFC?

12/22/14 - Siver is ranked no 9, lost a spot to Lentz

Fighter Rankings | UFC ®

web.archive.org

On 1/6/2015 Siver is ranked no 10, lost a spot to Oliveira.

Fighter Rankings | UFC ®

web.archive.org

Siver started the year off ranked 7th. Never lost a fight leading up to the Conor fight and actually won a fight. Nik Lentz inexplicably jumped 2 spots in the ranking in July.

Fighter Rankings | UFC ®

web.archive.org

Siver and Lentz swap spots a couple times and Lentz ends up ahead leading into the Conor fight.

So Siver actually lost 2 spots in the ranking leading into the Conor fight.. If anything he should have been ranked 9th, ahead of Lentz.

 

[SeattleFightFan]

He's far from the first guy to have a 5 fight win streak (over 4 guys you've never heard of) and not quite get into the top 10 yet.

But the answer is, you keep at it. He has agents and PR guys. He's doing what he has to do. Don't fret so, TS.

 

[Siver!]

Gotcha. Just curious.
I am of the mindset that any UFC win is a quality win, given the general high-level of fighter and just the nature of MMA and how easily even a "better" fighter can lose a fight at any moment.
So being 5-0 in the UFC, to me, is very impressive, even if the fighters he's beaten weren't highly-ranked. For instance, Bekzat may actually be a very, very good fighter, but we just haven't seen enough of him. His only two losses are to fighters who are 17-0 and 18-2.
So as far as Umar's ranking is concerned, because he's undefeated and all the fighters below him have recently lost, I am ok with him at #10.
Johnathan Martinez maybe has an argument. He's on a 6-fight win streak.
Heck, BOTH of them should be ranked ahead of Rob Font, who has lost FOUR-OF-FIVE, for Christ's sake. <45>

Agreed on most of this, I just think in order to get ahead of Font you have to beat Font - it's not what I'd prefer, it's just how they normally do it

 

[blaseblase]

For #10?

I wouldn't have moved him up at all. Everyone around him in the rankings has better wins, and virtually all defeats were against higher calibre opposition than anyone Umar has ever fought.

I don't think he's a can crusher, but relatively speaking he is.

I don't think Cruz should be ranked at this point, he hasn't won a fight in 2 and a half years and is basically retired. And Umar would be a massive favorite against him.

 

[Mmmmmmma1234]

Yeah, and it's usually 'strategically' reserved for once-per-year fighters or those that have visa issues lol

also stands for these few fights that I have a good stylistic advantage over and a huge difference in ranking said no to it.

Apparently, you be the cousin of Khabib Nurmagomedov and fight someone making their UFC debut who nobody knows how good they are, as well as have a very small back catalogue of wins containing zero opponents in the top 15.



Well that's a new one!

(INB4: "RANKINGS AREN'T REAL BRO!")

Same thing happened with Islam, is normal.

 

[Chael_Sonnen]

His losses were a very close decision to the champion at the time, a fight most people think he won against the current champ and a worse loss against Merab.

I don't see how you can say he shouldn't be where he is.

I didn't think the decision against Sterling was debatable, and I agree he probably should have won the O'Malley fight, but he got absolutely dominated against Merab. Maybe 9 was too harsh, but 4 is ridiculous. He has literally lost 4/5 of his last fights. I don't think having a few close decisions (and a DQ that was entirely his fault) should change the fact that he did lose those fights. Having a ranking of 4 means you should be 1 fight away from a title shot. I don't think Yan is 1 fight away from a title shot, however you spin it. Losing that many times means you should be at least 2 fights away from a TS. Put him at 7 and I think that's fair.

 

[Siver!]

I didn't think the decision against Sterling was debatable, and I agree he probably should have won the O'Malley fight, but he got absolutely dominated against Merab. Maybe 9 was too harsh, but 4 is ridiculous. He has literally lost 4/5 of his last fights. I don't think having a few close decisions (and a DQ that was entirely his fault) should change the fact that he did lose those fights. Having a ranking of 4 means you should be 1 fight away from a title shot. I don't think Yan is 1 fight away from a title shot, however you spin it. Losing that many times means you should be at least 2 fights away from a TS. Put him at 7 and I think that's fair.

Petr Yan should probably be ranked up, not down.

He lost to the Champion, the #1, and the #2, but he beat the #3.

He should be #3.

Of course if he now loses to Yadong, he should plummet, rather than just elevate Song.

Cory has beaten #7, #5, and #9 in a row. But he's also lost to #3, so he should be #4.

Henry Cejudo, on the other hand, is not only losing to the top fighters but hasn't beaten anyone since he beat the current #12 Dominick Cruz years ago. He should be ranked outside the top 10, despite the fact that the UFC keep booking him against opponents that are too good for him.

Yan I don't have a problem with.

 

[TheFlamingFist]

I still can’t believe what happened to Marlon Moraes he KOd aljamain sterling brutally but then Henry in one fight ruined his chin such a shame cause that guy is a beast

 

[Trabaho]

He should be top 5. Others are ducking him

 

[roganisonly5foot3]

Far left liberal mod kowboy on sherdog has stated that America deserved 9/11 and that he defends the muslims and they did the right thing

 

[wufabufa]

Competing in a weak weight class is a pretty good way of going about it. Just look at all the obese MWs that fight at HW these days.

 

[Chael_Sonnen]

Petr Yan should probably be ranked up, not down.

He lost to the Champion, the #1, and the #2, but he beat the #3.

He should be #3.

Of course if he now loses to Yadong, he should plummet, rather than just elevate Song.

Cory has beaten #7, #5, and #9 in a row. But he's also lost to #3, so he should be #4.

Henry Cejudo, on the other hand, is not only losing to the top fighters but hasn't beaten anyone since he beat the current #12 Dominick Cruz years ago. He should be ranked outside the top 10, despite the fact that the UFC keep booking him against opponents that are too good for him.

Yan I don't have a problem with.

That's not at all how rankings work. They measure your current results and form, not ALL the people you have ever beaten.

Agreed on Henry though, he should be lower. Font should be lower as well.

 

[Siver!]

That's not at all how rankings work. They measure your current results and form, not ALL the people you have ever beaten.

Do they?

I think you made that up, to be honest.

The reason guys on losing streaks/bad runs hang around is because you generally have to beat them to take their place.

Hence, guys can rank-squat.

The confusion arises because a panel of guys is just making shit up when it comes to rankings. Kinda like the judges, who one minute won't count any takedowns, then will, then won't again.

This inconsistency is silly.

 

[Chael_Sonnen]

Do they?

I think you made that up, to be honest.

The reason guys on losing streaks/bad runs hang around is because you generally have to beat them to take their place.

Hence, guys can rank-squat.

The confusion arises because a panel of guys is just making shit up when it comes to rankings. Kinda like the judges, who one minute won't count any takedowns, then will, then won't again.

This inconsistency is silly.

Eh, did some research and turns out I'm wrong. Here is what the official UFC site says:


I think it's silly tbh, I like my way better but ah well. I thought I knew how they were determined but apparently not lol, I wasn't intentionally misleading you when I wrote my original comment.

Agreed on the inconsistency of the panel though, there needs to be stricter definitions on how to rank someone. I think it should be results and form based, in that order.

 

[Chael_Sonnen]

Do they?

I think you made that up, to be honest.

The reason guys on losing streaks/bad runs hang around is because you generally have to beat them to take their place.

Hence, guys can rank-squat.

The confusion arises because a panel of guys is just making shit up when it comes to rankings. Kinda like the judges, who one minute won't count any takedowns, then will, then won't again.

This inconsistency is silly.

I will say though, your way of ranking wasn't how they did it either, we were both wrong haha.