Law How do we tackle tax evasion by the wealthy?

You don't even need a large and complex business structure. You just need a business. With even a midling accountant, A business owner of a business with $2.5 million in sales and 500K in profit will pay the same income tax a school teacher does.
I disagree. 500-K in profit will be taxed as income, either the corporation will pay at at a sliding rate if it's left in the company, or the benefactor will pay as personal income if it's payed out, the caveat being that if it's left in the corp, and the next year there is less than the 500-K in profit the delta will be accounted as a loss and no income tax will be due.
 
What do you guys think of a minimum tax on a company’s GAAP income statement? It’s simple, but I think I like it. You can always adjust for some non cash stuff (stock comp, etc.).
That would put many, many smaller entities out of business. Not every contract is profitable.
 
I disagree. 500-K in profit will be taxed as income, either the corporation will pay at at a sliding rate if it's left in the company, or the benefactor will pay as personal income if it's payed out, the caveat being that if it's left in the corp, and the next year there is less than the 500-K in profit the delta will be accounted as a loss and no income tax will be due.

You are wrong, and I was not stating an opinion. Business owners can give themselves 'owner distributions' that are not taxed for SS/Medicare. Nor are their payroll taxes on owner distributions. If you have enough 'owners' you can spread the earnings around with very small tax exposure. In fact, with our current tax code, you could give a $25,000 owner distribution to an unemployed, married father of 2, and he would still get money back from the IRS on his individual tax return. Let that sink in for a minute.
 
To blatantly just cheat, correct. Anyone can do that. To do it in a confusing, incomprehensible way? The more sophisticated the better (or worse, if you think this sort of thing is bad like I do).

The big companies, many publicly traded, are not going to just flat out cheat. They want a defendable position even if for public relations alone.

No cheating. 100% completely legal. And it's simple and easily comprehensible.

I own my own freight brokerage. I have a CPA do my books and file my corporate and personal taxes. I know what I make, how much I pay in taxes, and how much my business pays. It ain't that much. And I am not even trying to take advantage of everything I could because I don't like having partners.

One of my best friends works for and is a 'partner' in his parents plumbing company, along with his 4 brothers and sister. His Mom's 2 sisters are also 'partners'. They all make very modest 'wages'. But they all get owner distributions. The company pays very little tax because it divests almost all the profit in owner distributions. The individuals are not taxed that heavily because their 'wages' are low. Because of that, the vast majority of their medical expenses are tax deductible, which lowers their exposure even more. Throw in 57.5 cents per mile in mileage deductions for 9 vehicles, and you have 9 people making 6 figure salaries with the tax exposure of short order cooks.

All this is perfectly legal, thanks to our 70,000 page tax code. If you turned the 70K page tax code into a 1 page tax code, you could cut the tax rate by 25% and still collect 25% MORE in taxes.
 
There are several parts to this issue from what I can tell One of the bigger ones often mentioned is that raising taxes on the wealthy often results in higher prices on goods bought by the middle and lower class. The wealthy and the firms they often own will raise prices on their goods to pay for taxes.

Another other issue that is less mentioned is that there is a large industry that makes a good living off of avoiding taxes. These include lawyers, accountants and politicians. For this industry it is not good to have lower taxes. Higher taxes will mean wealthy businesses owners need to higher more attorneys and accounts to skirt the taxes, and make donations to politicians in order to create loop holes.

This is why sometimes it is written that lowering taxes, can result in more tax revenue taken in, along with other reasons such as a better growing economy.

One write up on this ~

The real reason Biden and the swamp want higher corporate tax rates

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/...and-the-swamp-want-higher-corporate-tax-rates

excerpt~

Economists will tell you that hiking corporate tax rates doesn’t help the working class or middle class. Budget wonks will tell you that hiking the corporate rate won't raise very much revenue. People who understand business and taxation will explain higher corporate tax rates mostly increase economic distortions by pushing corporations to structure their spending more around tax avoidance, effectively letting the tax code and politicians dictate business decisions.

Politicians will tell you, “That’s the point.”

Always remember why half of Washington wants higher tax rates and why nearly all of Washington wants a complex tax code full of loopholes, exemptions, and exceptions to exemptions: They want to force businesses and earners to seek Washington’s favor.

The 2017 Tax Cuts and Jobs Act lowered corporate rates to 21%, lowered individual rates, and increased the standard deduction. These rate cuts partly made up for the law’s failure to reform the tax code fully by simplifying it.

Full tax reform would abolish nearly all corporate tax credits, would remove many deductions, and close all loopholes. Tax reform helps the economy by removing incentives for companies to spend and invest in inefficient ways. When companies instead spend and invest according to what consumers demand and markets prescribe, then the pursuit of profit leads businesses to serve the public. When tax rates are high and the tax code is complex, companies instead seek ways to minimize taxes, which often involves pointless, costly maneuvers.

But nearly every loophole, exemption, and tax break in the economy is the fruit of special interest lobbying, and so Congress often lacks the fortitude to remove these favors. Second-best is reducing the demand for loopholes by lowering the rates.

While a company may maximize profits from playing games to defer or offshore profits when tax rates are 35%, it’s still likely inefficient from an economic perspective. That is, companies pay (in inefficiencies) to lower their taxes. When tax rates drop to 21%, they’re not willing to pay as much to avoid taxation, which means less game-playing......

This post gives a ludicrously partisan spin and is simply not based on evidence. The 2017 tax cuts led to a massive deficit and most of the revenue surplus went to shareholders. Trickle down economics is a myth that right wing politicians still cling to so they can enrich their own ppckets.
 
The IRS needs more funding and enough funding to lure the talented tax planners into their midst. That will never happen. The next best step is to simplify the tax code and eliminate many of the loopholes that allow some of these strategies to be employed.

The last step is counter-intuitive. You raise taxes on the wealthy.

The IRS will always be behind the wealthy when it comes to tax planning. They will find and exploit any weaknesses. So you raise the tax rate with the knowledge that they will find solutions to pull their actual rate down. Cities sometimes do this with property taxes - they raise the taxes knowing that many people will hire attorneys and tax planners to appeal the new assessments. The result is a lower tax than the city asked for but still more than what it was in the past. The same with the wealthy and income tax.

They will beat your system. So you need a system where even when they win, you still get more tax revenue than before.
 
No cheating. 100% completely legal. And it's simple and easily comprehensible.

I own my own freight brokerage. I have a CPA do my books and file my corporate and personal taxes. I know what I make, how much I pay in taxes, and how much my business pays. It ain't that much. And I am not even trying to take advantage of everything I could because I don't like having partners.

One of my best friends works for and is a 'partner' in his parents plumbing company, along with his 4 brothers and sister. His Mom's 2 sisters are also 'partners'. They all make very modest 'wages'. But they all get owner distributions. The company pays very little tax because it divests almost all the profit in owner distributions. The individuals are not taxed that heavily because their 'wages' are low. Because of that, the vast majority of their medical expenses are tax deductible, which lowers their exposure even more. Throw in 57.5 cents per mile in mileage deductions for 9 vehicles, and you have 9 people making 6 figure salaries with the tax exposure of short order cooks.

All this is perfectly legal, thanks to our 70,000 page tax code. If you turned the 70K page tax code into a 1 page tax code, you could cut the tax rate by 25% and still collect 25% MORE in taxes.
I honestly don’t know what the disagreement is here. I’ve been specifically addressing cheaters and those pushing the envelope by making it difficult to catch evasion. I’ve also only been taking about federal tax, but it’s easier to cheat on state taxes (just don’t file where you’re supposed to).

I’m not making any arguments about legally reducing your tax burden!

As for my background, I’m a CPA with public accounting in my background (big 4 and a small firm doing some tax work as well as audit) and now run the accounting department of a big CPG company. I’m a big part of tax related decisions.
 
I honestly don’t know what the disagreement is here. I’ve been specifically addressing cheaters and those pushing the envelope by making it difficult to catch evasion. I’ve also only been taking about federal tax, but it’s easier to cheat on state taxes (just don’t file where you’re supposed to).

I’m not making any arguments about legally reducing your tax burden!

As for my background, I’m a CPA with public accounting in my background (big 4 and a small firm doing some tax work as well as audit) and now run the accounting department of a big CPG company. I’m a big part of tax related decisions.

Your initial post seemed to assert that in order to come away with a small amount of tax on a larger income, it was necessary to either cheat or obfuscate. I was trying to put that notion to bed. Because with our current tax code, neither is necessary if you own a business. Apologies if I misinterpreted.
 
You are wrong, and I was not stating an opinion. Business owners can give themselves 'owner distributions' that are not taxed for SS/Medicare. Nor are their payroll taxes on owner distributions. If you have enough 'owners' you can spread the earnings around with very small tax exposure. In fact, with our current tax code, you could give a $25,000 owner distribution to an unemployed, married father of 2, and he would still get money back from the IRS on his individual tax return. Let that sink in for a minute.
I don't consider SS and Medicare tax. "Payroll taxes" include FICA, FUDA, SUDA, etc... So you are twisting some stuff up here.
Point is, there's no way to escape paying income tax on profit, either in the corporation or distributed.

In 2019 my company realized 585-K profit. Left it in as growth cash flow, wrote a check for 185-K in income tax. 31.6%
Try writing that check..

Edit: Peace be upon you
 
I don't consider SS and Medicare tax. "Payroll taxes" include FICA, FUDA, SUDA, etc... So you are twisting some stuff up here.
Point is, there's no way to escape paying income tax on profit, either in the corporation or distributed.

In 2019 my company realized 585-K profit. Left it in as growth cash flow, wrote a check for 185-K in income tax. 31.6%
Try writing that check..

Edit: Peace be upon you
Not to get into your business but why?
 
I'm seeing pundits predicting inflation approaching 3%, up almost a percentage point from it's traditional 2% but this can always be addressed by the Fed. As for jobs, skill workers have been hit hard by covid protocols but biden may actuallly be the recipient of modest job growth as this sector recovers.

Translation: "In general, I am predicting the apocalypse. But if you want me to get specific... I predict everything will be basically OK."

<Dany07>
 
Your initial post seemed to assert that in order to come away with a small amount of tax on a larger income, it was necessary to either cheat or obfuscate. I was trying to put that notion to bed. Because with our current tax code, neither is necessary if you own a business. Apologies if I misinterpreted.
All good, maybe I wasn’t clear. I agree with you.
 
Not to get into your business but why?
S-corps pay tax as a schedule C on the owners return. The 21% rate that everyone yaks about is only on the first 100-K, then progressively grows higher as profits mount. I didn't have any carry over losses because things have been pretty good since 2017, (2020 sucked) and it was a cheaper rate than if I'd taken it out and put it on my 1040.
The 585 was after all expenses on 5.65M gross revenue..
Maybe I need a new accountant, but he's been pretty good over the years. I got audited in 2006 and they ended up owing me a little bit, haven't heard from the IRS since.
 
S-corps pay tax as a schedule C on the owners return. The 21% rate that everyone yaks about is only on the first 100-K, then progressively grows higher as profits mount. I didn't have any carry over losses because things have been pretty good since 2017, (2020 sucked) and it was a cheaper rate than if I'd taken it out and put it on my 1040.
The 585 was after all expenses on 5.65M gross revenue..
Maybe I need a new accountant, but he's been pretty good over the years. I got audited in 2006 and they ended up owing me a little bit, haven't heard from the IRS since.
Okay, still have questions about the long term strategy (I do some tax law in my practice) but this isn't the place or the time.

I do have a different question - does your accountant suggest tax mitigation strategies or does he wait for you to bring them up?

I was talking to someone who was planning to change their accountant and that was the complaint "Why doesn't my accountant bring ideas to me?" I have no idea if that's a common occurrence.
 
Okay, still have questions about the long term strategy (I do some tax law in my practice) but this isn't the place or the time.

I do have a different question - does your accountant suggest tax mitigation strategies or does he wait for you to bring them up?

I was talking to someone who was planning to change their accountant and that was the complaint "Why doesn't my accountant bring ideas to me?" I have no idea if that's a common occurrence.
It was a good year... The strategy got screwed up a little with some contracts paying out early. Cash accounting vs accrual, I've been hosed both ways.. Not that it would have helped here.
 
Term limits and lobbying reform are certainly needed. As long as politicians pockets are being filled by these folks, not much is going to change.
"these folks" = you

you vote for and enable the whole charade
 
Okay, still have questions about the long term strategy (I do some tax law in my practice) but this isn't the place or the time.

I do have a different question - does your accountant suggest tax mitigation strategies or does he wait for you to bring them up?

I was talking to someone who was planning to change their accountant and that was the complaint "Why doesn't my accountant bring ideas to me?" I have no idea if that's a common occurrence.
It’s pretty simple, the more money you give an accountant generally the more on top of things they will be. If you want to pay for quarterly management accounts then it provides ample opportunities for tax planning throughout the year, whether it be corporate or personal taxes. Waiting to file your accounts once a year on the other hand, you may miss out on something that you may have taken advantage of otherwise.
 
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