Social How do we sleep while our beds are burning? The climate changing thread

[Voodoo_Child906]

Excuse my interjection, but the positive feedback loop that you describe is make believe. What is the experiment that demonstrates the positive feedback loop?

Henry's Law - gasses like CO2 will generally become less soluble in warmer water as they have more kinetic energy. I'm assuming you've had a carbonated beverage?

 

[Loiosh]

Uhh...this does not help your argument.

He posted the claim but didn't really say what it meant. He didn't actually make an argument, even if based on his history it seemed he was.

 

[TeTe]

Suspected arson... Just like the Palisades

 

[TeTe]

Whether you believe in climate change or not I've been of the thought of why wouldn't you want a cleaner world regardless of your stance? For example, unless you are in an industry or job that needs it why do people want to drive coal rollers? Those trucks usually look dumb anyways and produce more pollution than is needed. I'm not against trucks but it's just an example of things we could focus on having less of.

It would also help if public transportation was used a lot more in at minimum the biggest cities in America. It's dumb to have to have a car in most major cities like L.A., San Diego, Dallas, Charlotte, etc.

Of course you should want a less polluted world and fortunately in the US pollution is a small fraction of what it was since the clean air act was passed in 1970.

 

[TeTe]

I actually think man made climate change might slow down due to birth rates going to shit but thats just my 2 cents

(Biggest enviromental act one can make is not to have kids )

Absolutely, having one less child is 58 times more effective in reducing carbon footprint than never owning a car for you entire life.

 

[TeTe]

Global warming is not real. It snowed at my house.
And if it is real, its natural.
And if its not natural, we didn't cause it.
And if we did cause it, its a good thing.
And if its not a good thing then at least it triggers the libs.

Just done use wildfires to prove a point... The amount of area burned by them since 2003 has actually gone down by 25 percent

 

[gatchaman]

Henry's Law - gasses like CO2 will generally become less soluble in warmer water as they have more kinetic energy. I'm assuming you've had a carbonated beverage?

You have literally just supported this post:

CO2 has been a trailing metric, not a leading metric, in the millions of years we've tracked it on Earth.

Suddenly, that changed? Does that go against "Science"?

Increased global temperature is the cause of increased global CO2 because as temperature increases, CO2 is less soluble in the oceans. Thus increased CO2 follows after increased temperature in ice core samples.

But Loiosh has used AI to delve into the realm of make believe in stating that the CO2 is causing the temperature increase by positive feedback.

I plugged your exact words into AI and it told me you were mistaken.

You should stop making statements and instead ask questions.

Spoiler: AI results

"CO2 has been a trailing metric, not a leading metric, in the millions of years we've tracked it on Earth."

The idea that CO2 has historically been a lagging, not leading, metric of temperature is based on paleoclimate evidence from Antarctic ice cores, but it is an incomplete picture of the overall climate system. While it is true that temperature changes sometimes preceded atmospheric CO2 changes during glacial cycles, this does not disprove that CO2 is a driver of climate change. Instead, it highlights the complex system of feedbacks and forcings that control the planet's climate.

The lagging relationship in ice core data

• Initial warming trigger: During ice age cycles over the last 800,000 years, the initial warming from a glacial period was not started by CO2. Instead, slight changes in Earth's orbit, known as Milankovitch cycles, changed the amount of sunlight reaching the Northern Hemisphere. This caused a small amount of initial warming.
• Positive feedback loop: This initial, orbitally-driven warming then triggered a positive feedback loop involving CO2. A warmer climate, especially warmer oceans, caused the oceans to release stored CO2 into the atmosphere. This added CO2 amplified the warming effect, leading to more CO2 being released and further temperature increases. Because the ocean's CO2 release process takes time, the rise in atmospheric CO2 lagged behind the initial temperature increase recorded in the Antarctic ice cores.
• A global vs. local perspective: It's important to remember that ice cores in Antarctica reflect local Antarctic temperature. However, CO2 is a well-mixed gas that represents global atmospheric levels. Studies that reconstruct a global temperature record show a much smaller lag between global temperature and CO2, and sometimes no lag at all. The initial warming in Antarctica was amplified by a globally rising CO2, which then drove further global temperature increases.

The critical difference between past and present
The key distinction between the paleoclimate record and modern warming is the initial forcing mechanism.

[th]


[/th][th]
Natural Ice Age Cycles

[/th][th]
Modern Warming

[/th]​

[td]Initial Trigger[/td][td]Gradual changes in Earth's orbit (Milankovitch cycles).[/td][td]The rapid addition of CO2 and other greenhouse gases to the atmosphere from human activities, such as burning fossil fuels.[/td] [td]Pace of Change[/td][td]Slow, occurring over thousands of years.[/td][td]Unprecedented and extremely fast, happening over just a couple hundred years.[/td] [td]Role of CO2[/td][td]An amplifier of warming, turning a small initial temperature change into a much larger one.[/td][td]The primary cause of the current warming trend.[/td] [td]Atmospheric Levels[/td][td]In the last 800,000 years, CO2 levels never exceeded 300 parts per million (ppm).[/td][td]Modern CO2 levels surpassed 400 ppm in 2013 and continue to rise rapidly.[/td]




Conclusion
The argument that CO2 has historically been a lagging metric is misleading because it ignores the amplifying role CO2 played in past climate cycles. Furthermore, it incorrectly equates a natural cycle, which was initiated by orbital changes, with modern warming, which is driven primarily by human-caused CO2 emissions. The current, unprecedented rate and scale of CO2 increase make it the leading driver of global temperature rise today.

"Positive feedback loop: This initial, orbitally-driven warming then triggered a positive feedback loop involving CO2. A warmer climate, especially warmer oceans, caused the oceans to release stored CO2 into the atmosphere. This added CO2 amplified the warming effect, leading to more CO2 being released and further temperature increases. Because the ocean's CO2 release process takes time, the rise in atmospheric CO2 lagged behind the initial temperature increase recorded in the Antarctic ice cores."

It is this imaginary positive feedback that you continue to fail to support with experimental evidence.

 

[SurferH2O]

You have literally just supported this post:

Increased global temperature is the cause of increased global CO2 because as temperature increases, CO2 is less soluble in the oceans. Thus increased CO2 follows after increased temperature in ice core samples.

But Loiosh has used AI to delve into the realm of make believe in stating that the CO2 is causing the temperature increase by positive feedback.


"Positive feedback loop: This initial, orbitally-driven warming then triggered a positive feedback loop involving CO2. A warmer climate, especially warmer oceans, caused the oceans to release stored CO2 into the atmosphere. This added CO2 amplified the warming effect, leading to more CO2 being released and further temperature increases. Because the ocean's CO2 release process takes time, the rise in atmospheric CO2 lagged behind the initial temperature increase recorded in the Antarctic ice cores."

It is this imaginary positive feedback that you continue to fail to support with experimental evidence.

If I could like your post I would. Well done.

Ignoring the history of the climate seems quite disingenuous when considering climate change.

 

[Voodoo_Child906]

You have literally just supported this post:

Increased global temperature is the cause of increased global CO2 because as temperature increases, CO2 is less soluble in the oceans. Thus increased CO2 follows after increased temperature in ice core samples.

But Loiosh has used AI to delve into the realm of make believe in stating that the CO2 is causing the temperature increase by positive feedback.


"Positive feedback loop: This initial, orbitally-driven warming then triggered a positive feedback loop involving CO2. A warmer climate, especially warmer oceans, caused the oceans to release stored CO2 into the atmosphere. This added CO2 amplified the warming effect, leading to more CO2 being released and further temperature increases. Because the ocean's CO2 release process takes time, the rise in atmospheric CO2 lagged behind the initial temperature increase recorded in the Antarctic ice cores."

It is this imaginary positive feedback that you continue to fail to support with experimental evidence.

In natural glacial-interglacial cycles yes, CO2 was mainly a feedback and not the initial cause; however it was essential to the magnitude of the warming. Today is different as our burning of fossil fuels is injecting CO2 directly into the atmosphere and bypassing the slow ocean feedback. We can see this through isotope ratios, the excess CO2 has our signature on it and from what I've read, atmospheric O2 has decreased in exact proportion to the carbon burned.

Do you really consider Henry's law imaginary?? LOL

 

[gatchaman]

In natural glacial-interglacial cycles yes, CO2 was mainly a feedback and not the initial cause; however it was essential to the magnitude of the warming. Today is different as our burning of fossil fuels is injecting CO2 directly into the atmosphere and bypassing the slow ocean feedback. We can see this through isotope ratios, the excess CO2 has our signature on it and from what I've read, atmospheric O2 has decreased in exact proportion to the carbon burned.

You still don't understand the words that you are using.

SuferH2O clearly described for you that, in ice core data, the temperature increase precedes the CO2 increase because the temperature increase warms the oceans and then the CO2 is less soluble in the oceans. As you correctly stated, the experimental proof of SurferH2O's description comes from Henry's Law.

Loiosh countered with the imaginary concept of positive feedback to explain that it is actually the later rise in CO2 that is driving the earlier rise in temperature. Now, you are using the term "ocean feedback" as if it is supported by scientific evidence rather than by imagination.

Now, go be that poster, who proudly presented the experimental proof of Henry's Law, and present for us all the experimental proof of a positive feedback relationship between CO2 and temperature.

 

[Voodoo_Child906]

You still don't understand the words that you are using.

SuferH2O clearly described for you that, in ice core data, the temperature increase precedes the CO2 increase because the temperature increase warms the oceans and then the CO2 is less soluble in the oceans. As you correctly stated, the experimental proof of SurferH2O's description comes from Henry's Law.

Loiosh countered with the imaginary concept of positive feedback to explain that it is actually the later rise in CO2 that is driving the earlier rise in temperature. Now, you are using the term "ocean feedback" as if it is supported by scientific evidence rather than by imagination.

Now, go be that Loiosh, who proudly presented the experimental proof of Henry's Law, and present for us all the experimental proof of a positive feedback relationship between CO2 and temperature.

You didn't read everything in Loish's AI quote did you LOL

"Conclusion
The argument that CO2 has historically been a lagging metric is misleading because it ignores the amplifying role CO2 played in past climate cycles. Furthermore, it incorrectly equates a natural cycle, which was initiated by orbital changes, with modern warming, which is driven primarily by human-caused CO2 emissions. The current, unprecedented rate and scale of CO2 increase make it the leading driver of global temperature rise today."

Loish's AI post was not saying that past natural temp rises was caused by CO2, and is actually agreeing with SurferH20s post and saying that CO2 trails but does amplify. However it is differentiating between the past rises and the current modern rise which is driven by CO2. How do you not follow this?

 

[Barney Gumble]

I'm not seeing any progress towards a social credit system in the West tbh.

they intend to make everything they don't like more expensive. they will punish business, then people second and the new industries they create will benefit themselves and their insider friends. it's mafia type shit.

 

[Hellowhosthat]

they intend to make everything they don't like more expensive. they will punish business, then people second and the new industries they create will benefit themselves and their insider friends. it's mafia type shit.

Who's they, the WEF?

 

[Barney Gumble]

Who's they, the WEF?

WEF, UN, WHO, the EU, all of 'em working on the same overall project of global communism.

here's another sample and if you've looked into the WEF and their general plans over the last 5 years you'd know what they're pushing. i'm positive there's material on sherdog explaining it.

 

[Barney Gumble]

we have been ringing the alarms for 5+ years on this and most people still have their heads stuck in the sand.

 

[Hellowhosthat]

WEF, UN, WHO, the EU, all of 'em working on the same overall project of global communism.

here's another sample and if you've looked into the WEF and their general plans over the last 5 years you'd know what they're pushing. i'm positive there's material on sherdog explaining it.

I looked into it pretty extensively a while ago. I think it's a mixture of some truth and some alarmism based on what were opinion articles (stuff like you'll own nothing and be happy wasn't a policy, it was part of an opinion article by a random writer who said we'd be living on the moon as part of the same article).

 

[HeffDoesWant]

they intend to make everything they don't like more expensive. they will punish business, then people second and the new industries they create will benefit themselves and their insider friends. it's mafia type shit.

Yeah its those money hungry research scientists who started this whole global warming malarkey.

The poor fossil fuel owners can barely afford to protect their 100s of trillions of dollars in reserves against such a powerful motive as research grants.

 

[PhitePhan]

Yeah its those money hungry research scientists who started this whole global warming malarkey.

The poor fossil fuel owners can barely afford to protect their 100s of trillions of dollars in reserves against such a powerful motive as research grants.

Meh, there’s also big money to be made from climate change…

“Globally, total climate-finance (i.e., money devoted to climate-action — both mitigation & adaptation, not just research) approached about US$1.3 trillion per year in 2021/22.”

Global Landscape of Climate Finance 2023 - CPI

The most comprehensive overview of global climate-related primary investment

www.climatepolicyinitiative.org

 

[Natural Order]

There is 5-10% more greenery (foliage/plant life) on earth today than there was in 2005.

C02 is not the real problem. Plastic, physical pollutants into the earth, chemicals and byproduct processes should be the forefront of scientific alarmism.

 

[jimjamjammer]

I'm not seeing any progress towards a social credit system in the West tbh.

The UK literally just just announced a digital ID that would do just that. Mind you the UK is on a different level of self destruction than most Western countries. But I'd be willing bet others are discussing it behind closed doors. Hopefully I'm wrong .