Social How do we sleep while our beds are burning? The climate changing thread

Surely there’s got to be others browsing this thread with a greater than fundamental level comprehension of the sciences, specifically organic chemistry, and the evolution of equipment used to monitor the environment.
Reading arguments between individuals who clearly have just barely enough grasp of the subject matter to be dangerous, is frustratingly hilarious. 🤪
 
Stuff like this is why people like Joe Rogan are dangerous.

The current rate of temperature increase is literally unprecedented over the last 500 million years. Humans have only been emitting industrial scale pollution for less than 200 years.
Hahaha sure

Rogan believes hardcore in climate change you dope..

"WoRsT ItS EvEr BeEn"

What we know 0.0176% of 4.54 billion of time and data or your number is at 11%
  • High-resolution climate records (like ice cores) go back only about 800,000 years
  • Modern, accurate temperature records span just the last ~150 years
 
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Surely there’s got to be others browsing this thread with a greater than fundamental level comprehension of the sciences, specifically organic chemistry, and the evolution of equipment used to monitor the environment.
Reading arguments between individuals who clearly have just barely enough grasp of the subject matter to be dangerous, is frustratingly hilarious. 🤪
It's too bad we can't be a smart as you, delivering your haughty insults and adding jack shit otherwise to the conversation. Oh, you are so clever.
 
Hey brother- no disrespect intended, much of what you’re arguing for is probably true.

However extrapolating the margins of error for estimating atmospheric conditions before modern metering equipment existed across millions of years, and then forming an argument comparing that wildly varying estimated data against modern data which were accurately measured….?
These are all hypothetical, therefore silly arguments.

It's too bad we can't be a smart as you, delivering your haughty insults and adding jack shit otherwise to the conversation. Oh, you are so clever.
 
Hey brother- no disrespect intended, much of what you’re arguing for is probably true.

However extrapolating the margins of error for estimating atmospheric conditions before modern metering equipment existed across millions of years, and then forming an argument comparing that wildly varying estimated data against modern data which were accurately measured….?
These are all hypothetical, therefore silly arguments.
I agree with your statement about the lack of inclusion of error estimates, which is why I talk about things like fossils of crocodiles and palm trees in the arctic and glacier movements (which can be traced by rocks called erratics). You can also look at things like archeological evidence, like the Vikings farming Barley in Greenland (too cold today) to get a better idea of past temperature conditions. Also, I think it is interesting to look at periods where the proxy data and instrument data overlap (This pertains to the Climategate Scandal).
 
I'm expanding on my answer because you have not answered yet @heloder.

For one thing, I'm glad that you agree that the CO2 level has been over 4000 ppm in the past in the hundreds of the millions of years ago (when there were no humans and no internal combustion engine). So we agree that the increase of 200 to 400 ppm (that is falsely attributed to the Industrial Age. Okay, we don't agree on "falsely", and I will expand on why I say falsely if someone asks.) is insignificant compared to the natural variation that occurs without humans. You are being dishonest about diversity of lifeforms: I stated that high temperature and CO2 periods are "known as Climate Optimums based on expansion of the fossil record under these conditions.", which includes the Cambrian Explosion of Life (around 500-600 MYA), in which the temperature and CO2 were as high as they have ever been since, while you have cherry-picked the Devonian Extinction, which also includes all-time lows in CO2 and temperature. Please describe the climate of a Climate Optimum according to the geologic record.

The reason that I am focused on 50-60 MYA is because we are agreed that the CO2 was over a thousand ppm and the temperature was high enough for there to be crocodiles and palm trees in the arctic (from fossil evidence dated to the Paleocene-Eocene Thermal Maximum or PTEM). There were also primates. So at a time, when CO2 was "dangerously high" (above 350 ppm according to John Kerry) and the temperature was orders of magnitude higher than today's ice age, primates survived.

Your argument is that humans will go extinct above 420 ppm because they have never existed above this level. So buckle up; you are going extinct from global warming (during an ice age), because the CO2 is already almost at that level, and there is nothing you can do about it. Billions of dollars have been spent and numerous international accords have been signed, and you haven't moved the CO2 ppm trendline even 1 ppm. Go look for yourself: https://www.noaa.gov/news-release/d...-carbon-dioxide-levels-surge-faster-than-ever

I mentioned earlier that we are living in the interglacial of an Ice Age, based on the Milankovich Cycle (You should look this up if you don't know what it means.) that goes back about a 1M years in ice cores. Here is the last half a million years from the Vostok ice core:
6.jpg

All of human civilization exists in that last ellipse without a box around it. So, most of the time we are in glacial, and for 10-20 thousand years out of 100 thousand years we get a brief relief. We are at the end of the present interglacial (our ellipse is the same size as the preceding ellipses), so sometime between tomorrow and a few thousand years from now, we are going to be back in a glacial. And what does a glacial look like?: In the last glacial all of Canada was covered by the Laurentide Ice Sheet. This change about 10,000+ years ago is the reason that people can live in Canada:
loopglac.gif

Similarly, there was a Weischelian Ice Sheet in Europe:
Weichsel-W%C3%BCrm-Glaciation.png

So if I could press a button to create your doomsday scenario of PTEM-like conditions (palm trees and crocodiles in Canada) at 1000ppm CO2, I would push it.

What is your choice?:
A) PTEM-like conditions (What you are afraid of)
B) Laurentide and Weischelian Ice Sheets (What is actually going to happen)
But but but that doesn't fit my narrative. It can't be accurate.
 
Hahaha sure

Rogan believes hardcore in climate change you dope..

"WoRsT ItS EvEr BeEn"

What we know 0.0176% of 4.54 billion of time and data or your number is at 11%
  • High-resolution climate records (like ice cores) go back only about 800,000 years
  • Modern, accurate temperature records span just the last ~150 years
No he doesn't, watch his interview with Mel Gibson.
 
I think the Epstein network is a bigger environmental issue than ICE (internal combustion engine) vehicles.

You are ruled by the Epstein network. Maybe you think this a good thing, but I think we are being run by the Epstein network the way that Joe Pesci ran the restaurant in Goodfellas.


The world's problem is that we are heading to an economic depression (the restaurant being burned down in the above clip). Epstein's network has diagnosed (to continue my analogy from post #44) global warming (diabetic foot) with the solution of massive wealth transfer from the tax payer to the mob (leg amputation) to fund things like electric buses and Solyndra (which is really just putting the money in the pockets of the mob. You should look up Solyndra if you don't know what it is.). In Edmonton, half the electric buses don't work, and the company that is supposed to service them is bankrupt, and the buses that do work can be driven for half a day compared to a full day for ICE buses. The scam is being repeated in Calgary.

Here is the Epstein network climate scam laid bare:
headlines.jpg

1999 GISS analysis of surface temperature change (Figure 6): https://pubs.giss.nasa.gov/docs/1999/1999_Hansen_ha03200f.pdf

1924 MacMillan Reports signs of New Ice Age: https://www.nytimes.com/1924/09/28/...s-of-new-ice-age-explorer-brings-word-of.html

1932 Next Great Deluge Forecast by Science: http://www.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/weekinreview/warm1930.pdf

1978 International Team of Specialists Finds No End in Sight to 30-year Cooling Trend in Northern Hemisphere: https://www.nytimes.com/1978/01/05/...cialists-finds-no-end-in-sight-to-30year.html

1988 Global Warming Has Begun, Expert Tells Senate: https://www.nytimes.com/1988/06/24/us/global-warming-has-begun-expert-tells-senate.html

The fraudsters who rule us convinced you that a normal trend in the Atlantic Multidecadal Oscillation (You should look up the AMO if you don't know what it is.) is the "Next Great Deluge" (to quote the headline from 1932), and you fell for it just like low information people, who didn't know about solar eclipses, fell for it from Thales of Miletus and Christopher Columbus.

Now that you know that your entire global order is Solyndra/Goodfellas writ large, let's revisit the question:
Which is an actual environmental issue?:
A) ICE vehicles
B) Epstein's network
Don't be a chicken, answer the question.

Walls if text , I'm sure you have all this saved somewhere...

Don't be a chicken? This made think of A Christmas Story and the BB gun , Odd guy you are .

You are all over the place , weird tangents I'm sure you think come together

Yes I remember solyndra , I remember in 2007 they were used by the right to try and undermine the backing of "green companies" I remember Mitt Romney railing against the money wasted on supporting companies like solyndra and Tesla all the while being backing the subsidizing of oil gas companies , it's always hit my funny bone that one of his examples of waste thrived and survived completely undermining his position.

Yes green houses pump in co2 because co2 is how plants build their structures , this proves nothing except that plants can be used to sequester carbon which it what fossil fuels are .

Yes humans can survive higher co2 levels and the planet can obviously thrive with much higher co2 levels but significantly higher levels will be catastrophic for our modern society, I've been saying for twenty years , we aren't ruining the planet, we're ruining it for us .


Humans have thrived in the last ten thousand years fron a warmer , wetter , relatively stable climate, it's why plant cultivation developed around the same time in different places all around the world ,it's quite fascinating , so why risk a higher climate when we can prevent it if we have the will ?

A warming planet will bring chaos in the form of unpredictable and violent weather patterns , have you not noticed the heat waves and fires that rage like never before and keep getting worse year after year ?

I love it when people like bring up articles from sources like popular science published 60 years ago predicting an ice age and try and use it to discredit climate science, you know then they are either dishonest, dumb or batshit , that's how science should work ,different people have different theories, they argue them , publish studies , meet up and present them , the strongest theories stand up to scrutiny and win the day , the ones that don't, well they don't go away, there are always wingnuts , in a fashion shouting on the corner, sound familiar?

Showing an article from 1930 , Really?


The world is moving to renewables because they are cheaper and cleaner , this can't be stopped, there are alot of very rich and powerful companies trying to slow this down (they've given up trying to stop it ) because this will undo their strangle hold on energy supply and distribution, they are pushing nuclear now in hopes of keeping as much control as they can , control the supply , control the distribution, control the cost .

The world is moving to EVs because they are simpler and more reliable as well as being cleaner and will be cheaper, they already are in China and are at cost parity in Europe and Australia, this transition too cannot be stopped .
No vast global conspiracy needed , it's just progress.

In summary it appears you have it completely backwards , the powers that be ( billionaires and mega corporations and the politicians they buy) are trying to keep the status quo not over turn it , why would they ?, the status quo is how they got their power and money in the first place, why on earth would they fuck with it ?


One thing can't be argued , the rich and powerful are the ones who would be the least affected by climate change, they might even benefit from it .
 
Joe tends to agree with whoever was last on his show

Once upon a time maybe he was a believer of climate science, but recently he's been going in on the "we're actually in a cooling period" nonsense.

We WERE in a cooling period, that's kind of how humans evolved into the current state and civilization began to flourish.

But currently, the globe is heating up at an apparently unnatural and unprecedented rate.
 
I wonder why so many countries in the EU are adamant about the climate crisis, but at the same time move away from nuclear energy?

I saw that the import of LNG gas from Russia to China he EU increased a lot in 2024.
 
You forgot to include the CO2 level in a nuclear submarine (10G ppm or higher), and the submariners are still able to operate the submarine at this level.

Ya. but would you want to? The optimal level for us to stay where we are without too much change in our water cycle is around 350 ppm as an upper band.
 
Ya. but would you want to? The optimal level for us to stay where we are without too much change in our water cycle is around 350 ppm as an upper band.
I think you are making stuff up. You are losing your shit about an increase from 200 ppm to 400 ppm CO2 when the natural variation is in the thousands. Greenhouses and submarines show that humans can handle CO2 in the thousands of ppm. I think it would be instructive for you to get a home CO2 monitor (You can get one for under a $100 on amazon). I think you will find that the CO2 is around 500 to 1000 ppm in your house. Also, you will find that successive readings on the monitor will be about +/- 100 ppm. You are losing your shit over the margin of error on a home monitor (300 ppm +/- 100 ppm is 200 to 400 ppm).
 
I think you are making stuff up. You are losing your shit about an increase from 200 ppm to 400 ppm CO2 when the natural variation is in the thousands. Greenhouses and submarines show that humans can handle CO2 in the thousands of ppm. I think it would be instructive for you to get a home CO2 monitor (You can get one for under a $100 on amazon). I think you will find that the CO2 is around 500 to 1000 ppm in your house. Also, you will find that successive readings on the monitor will be about +/- 100 ppm. You are losing your shit over the margin of error on a home monitor (300 ppm +/- 100 ppm is 200 to 400 ppm).

It's not about what individual people can tolerate for respiration. Variations in the carbon ppm in the atmosphere can drastically alter the earths water cycle, and that's what we're trying to stop.
 
It's not about what individual people can tolerate for respiration. Variations in the carbon ppm in the atmosphere can drastically alter the earths water cycle, and that's what we're trying to stop.
That stuff I said you were making up, it's the stuff about the water cycle. I don't think you have a clue what you are talking about because you have not shown any experiment in which an increase of 200 ppm CO2 to 350 ppm affecting a water cycle. You will state that the water cycle is too complicated to simulate with a physical model, which really means that you want a license to make stuff up, but I am not giving to you.

But forget about the water cycle; you have not even shown by experiment that an increase of CO2 from 200 ppm to 400 ppm increases temperature by 1C. We have CO2 canisters and baking powder. We have thermometers, but you can't do this simple thing.
 
That stuff I said you were making up, it's the stuff about the water cycle. I don't think you have a clue what you are talking about because you have not shown any experiment in which an increase of 200 ppm CO2 to 350 ppm affecting a water cycle. You will state that the water cycle is too complicated to simulate with a physical model, which really means that you want a license to make stuff up, but I am not giving to you.

But forget about the water cycle; you have not even shown by experiment that an increase of CO2 from 200 ppm to 400 ppm increases temperature by 1C. We have CO2 canisters and baking powder. We have thermometers, but you can't do this simple thing.

Oh lol, so you think the entire eartth's water and heating cycle with its's albedo, ice dynamics and all of it's countless feedback loops can be mimicked by a CO2 cannister and baking powder? WTF is wrong with you?
 
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