How do so many fighters sustain constant damage to the head and yet remain coherent and mentally well?

[fatchud]

I've really wondered if there's a genetic component.

Someone like Shane Carwin didn't take that much (JDS fight not withstanding) damage in his relatively short career. Dude was an engineer, so he's obviously a smart guy.

And he has self admitted major symptoms.

Whereas someone like Jeremy Horn with well over a HUNDRED fight sounds like a damn teacher.

there's a genetic component that can impact the severity of CTE

Genetic Variant May Increase Risk for CTE Severity Among Older Individuals with Repetitive Head Impacts​

Genetic Variant May Increase Risk for CTE Severity Among Older Individuals with Repetitive Head Impacts | Chobanian & Avedisian School of Medicine

www.bumc.bu.edu

 

[fatchud]

frank mir is still smart and but there's something about the way he talks that has me worried. he also has a PTSD look to his eyes, almost depressed looking.

 

[MidgardSerpent]

MMA fans are so uneducated that they think the only signs of CTE is something super obvious like slurred speech.


"He sounds fine."


Okay, doctor, good that he passed your test.

 

[fatchud]

Listen to Chuck 15 years ago. Listen to him today.

2003

 

[fatchud]

MMA fans are so uneducated that they think the only signs of CTE is something super obvious like slurred speech.


"He sounds fine."


Okay, doctor, good that he passed your test.

i mean yeah, most of the damage is done way before they show signs.

 

[fzoid4454]

For the most part, fighters remain healthy and well into their later years. Of course, there are outliers who end up with mental damage and go off the rails. However, how is it that so many fighters are able to sustain damage and remain mentally stable and well? For example, look at Poirier, Smith, Bisping, Paul Felder, Jim Miller, Cerrone, the list goes on. They are well spoken, seemingly intelligent, don't seem to have much issue with CTE, despite the wars and damage they've sustained.

Also, even though Max Holloway and Gaetjhe are well known for crowd pleasing styles, they both seem mentally all there, despite those wars and damage sustained. I'm just wondering why it is that many guys don't live with obvious brain damage from years of hard sparring and fights. Is it just luck? Is it a case of those that reach the top are there for a reason, and that reason is because they can give out and sustain more damage than most. Obviously, someone with very poor punch resistance will be found out far sooner than by the time they get the chance to the reach the UFC.

They don't. Check in with them in 10, 20 years. Look at Babalu.

Now, if they're not as bad off as boxers, it's because, counter-intuitively, the additional padding on boxing gloves (and the greater volume of head strikes vs MMA) allows fighters to stay in fights and take a more steady volume of impacts without a fight being stopped, vs. the lighter MMA gloves. 50 to 100 lower impact punches probably do more long-term damage than a single KO punch, potentially, I think.

 

[TriangleMonkey]

I think CTE is addicting

With all these “retired” fighters coming back to fight BKFC

It’s like their bodies yearn for the CTE

 

[Joshua Judd]

Would be interesting to see the sparring regiments for the more articulate and with it fighters, I think that’s the key.

 

[Yabadabaev]

I have glass chin and no cte no cte im good

 

[Your Salad]

Why can some people smoke two packs a day for 80 years and live to be 90, while others die of lung cancer at 40?

This is the answer. If you take a lot of risks odds are you will end up dealing with the consequences related to said risks.
Some people who take lots of risks defy those odds.

 

[Goldentrophy]

Some more years need to pass by to know truly

 

[thecoldbloodedone]

Most brain damage is sustained in training, much more so than fights.
Guys who train smart rather than go to war in the gym every time, should have lower instance of CTE.

Boxers often wear headgear too which has been proven to cause MORE damage to the brain due to the extra shaking, being a bigger target and the way a glove will grip onto the headgear leather.

Shaking of the brain is theoretically worse than a frontal impact according to some CTE studies.

Dehydration also makes the brain less stable, reducing ability to sustain rattling without doing damage, so big weight cutters or guys who spar while already being drained are at more risk.
The more the brain gets rattled while dehydrated, the more the connective tissue to the interior skull is damaged, leading to more instability over time.

A lot of athletes don't talk publicly about the neurological issues they are going through, and retirement is extra rough on them.
The rush of competing is the only thing they know how to do that numbs the depression.

 

[Typrune Goatley]

I think about this often. If we assume that most guys in UFC 1 were in their 20's, they'll be hitting their 60's in the next 5-10 years.

Out of the 8 fighters at the UFC 1 tournament, 4 of them are already dead.

Pat Smith
Kevin Rosier
Teila Tuli
Art Jimmerson

 

[cmw43]

I've really wondered if there's a genetic component.

Someone like Shane Carwin didn't take that much (JDS fight not withstanding) damage in his relatively short career. Dude was an engineer, so he's obviously a smart guy.

And he has self admitted major symptoms.

Whereas someone like Jeremy Horn with well over a HUNDRED fight sounds like a damn teacher.

Carwin was known for heavy sparring basically every day so I'm not surprised if him and other heavyweights were throwing bombs at each other all the time.

I imagine Horn do didn't much hard sparring since he was fighting every month basically.

 

[doggo]

Most brain damage is sustained in training, much more so than fights.
Guys who train smart rather than go to war in the gym every time, should have lower instance of CTE.

Boxers often wear headgear too which has been proven to cause MORE damage to the brain due to the extra shaking, being a bigger target and the way a glove will grip onto the headgear leather.

Shaking of the brain is theoretically worse than a frontal impact according to some CTE studies.

Dehydration also makes the brain less stable, reducing ability to sustain rattling without doing damage, so big weight cutters or guys who spar while already being drained are at more risk.
The more the brain gets rattled while dehydrated, the more the connective tissue to the interior skull is damaged, leading to more instability over time.

A lot of athletes don't talk publicly about the neurological issues they are going through, and retirement is extra rough on them.
The rush of competing is the only thing they know how to do that numbs the depression.

I have always ended getting beat up and feeling terrible with headgear, all what you said + people going harder because you are "protected"

 

[Typrune Goatley]

I have always ended getting beat up and feeling terrible with headgear, all what you said + people going harder because you are "protected"

Same here bro. I become way more hittable in headgear. My vision is blocked. I don't feel comfortable. Punches that I could normally slip by a razor are now grazing my headgear. I stopped wearing it years ago. Hardly anyone was wearing it in the MMA gyms I was sparring at. A lot of people were wearing them at a boxing gym I used to go to though.


If it's MMA sparring with MMA gloves, then we definitely should be going light anyway. I have trained with a few UFC fighters and they would always warn us before sparring to go light in the MMA gloves. My Muay Thai coaches always stress the same thing right before sparring begins. Even in big gloves they tell us to be technical and not spaz. There is a time and place for spaz (like getting ready for a fight or when you get paired with an excited newbie and that is a actually a great time to work on your defense, counters, body shots, leg kicks) but not every time.

 

[doggo]

Same here bro. I become way more hittable in headgear. My vision is blocked. I don't feel comfortable. Punches that I could normally slip by a razor are now grazing my headgear. I stopped wearing it years ago. Hardly anyone was wearing it in the MMA gyms I was sparring at. A lot of people were wearing them at a boxing gym I used to go to though.


If it's MMA sparring with MMA gloves, then we definitely should be going light anyway. I have trained with a few UFC fighters and they would always warn us before sparring to go light in the MMA gloves. My Muay Thai coaches always stress the same thing right before sparring begins. Even in big gloves they tell us to be technical and not spaz. There is a time and place for spaz (like getting ready for a fight or when you get paired with an excited newbie and that is a actually a great time to work on your defense, counters, body shots, leg kicks) but not every time.

Body shot the raging newbie

Yeah same, and I never actually sparred with MMA gloves. Maybe some drills but no sparring.

 

[HOLA]

Isn't CTE a progressive condition?

Yes, effects start to become noticeable and then get progressively worse in retirement usually.

 

[HOLA]

We don't know what's going on behind the scenes with these guys. Just because they can still form clear sentences in an interview is a pretty low bar. Gary Good ridge doesn't actually sound all that bad when you hear him speak. He's not mumbling his words or anything, but he's been diagnosed with dementia.

With Spencer Fisher it seemed a little more obvious in interviews, where he was struggling to find the words

 

[Tito Tapped]

Hard to say what the long lasting effects are because we're only now seeing the first groups of career MMA fighters reaching advanced age.

Let's also not discount how you train. Lots of gyms used to have balls to the wall sparring sessions, and some still do. You might get hit in the cage and tkoed in the first minute off a few blows but you had 90 minute sparring sessions for weeks leading up, where you got cracked 100's of times.