How do Pro fighters afford so much 1on1 training?

[YoDaddy1]

To be the best you have to devote your life to what it is you're pursuing...So when you look at all the champions in the history of Boxing & MMA, it's no surprise you saw all of them working for hours with their coaches one on one, they didn't just go to their gym's group class every day.

Right now I'm in a position where I have enough time to train as much as I want. I only work part time and survive on the bare minimum as a means to freeing up as much time as I can to train. I soak up as much as I can from my gym's classes, ask lots of questions, and practice things on my own. But when I train 1on1 with a coach for an hour, I learn more from that than a week or more of training. Most places in my city charge about $70 an hour for this. With some quick math, if I was to do only 2 hours 1on1 every day, that'd be $980 per week. A grand a week!!

If you've made it big as a pro fighter and you're famous and making millions a year, obviously that's no issue. But how did those same fighters get so much training in before they'd made it? Was it just years of building a relationship with their coach, who decided to work one on one with them for free? Was it them turning pro and negotiating a deal with their coach to promise them a percentage of each of their pro fight paychecks? How does it work?

 

[NoSmilez]

If you are a pro or active amateur competitor. Most coaches will give you a discounted rate but most likely do it for free in a smaller fighter's group setting. Majority of them are former competitors. They know you don't have money. Most gyms have a fighter's rate vs a regular person's rate. It's a labor of love for some coaches. There is no real money at the regional level. The coaches know that but producing fighters for events is good for their brand or gym.

You are going to have to grind in public group classes first. I don't think anyone will get one on one attention without grinding with the group. Nobody is going to invest in you until they see you are going to stick around. I think you will learn faster when you get into the fight team and train with other more experienced people in a more informal setting. Many years ago I used to train at a famous gym and none of the competitors really bought private lessons. They might have individualized training before or after fighter's group training if they have a fight. The people who actually learned regularly from privates are like the rich white collar folks who can afford it.

 

[DoctorTaco]

There’s a couple of reasons why coaches don’t take cash up front from their fighters:

1. they do it for free as an investment in that fighter. They see the potential in an athlete and figure if they work with them for free now it will pay off later.

2. coaches take a percentage of the pro fighters purse so the private training is considered part of that “deal”. For 2.5-10% of your purse I’ll work your corner, scout your opponent, coordinate your camp, and work with you privately.

If you can’t afford private training then find a partner and split the cost with them. The coach can work with y’all together for a discounted rate

 

[Sinister]

Wait a minute...Pros PAY for their training??

 

[Woldog]

Wait a minute...Pros PAY for their training??

In Australia as a pro it can go two ways
1. You pay for your training like any other fighter at the gym, you get your corner men and coach on fight night as usual. Your fight purse goes to you.

2. You don't pay for your gym training, your coach and corner men show up to your fight night and they get a cut of your purse.

Also TS assumes that fighters have 0 money. Low level pros usually have a job and train after work. Not everyone just waltzes into $50k+ fights. If they are dedicated to becoming a pro who makes big money, they'll spend what money they can afford to make it there. Personally I've never had to pay extra for 1 on 1 training. I didn't know that was a thing at all. Perhaps Australia is different but our gyms that was included in our gym fee.

 

[StopDucking]

Pro fighters don’t pay for each training session. They give their coaches 10% of their purses and get unlimited coaching. The coach will then do everything he can to help his fighter improve since the more the fighter makes, the more he makes. It’s an investment for both of them.

 

[Sinister]

In Australia as a pro it can go two ways
1. You pay for your training like any other fighter at the gym, you get your corner men and coach on fight night as usual. Your fight purse goes to you.

2. You don't pay for your gym training, your coach and corner men show up to your fight night and they get a cut of your purse.

Also TS assumes that fighters have 0 money. Low level pros usually have a job and train after work. Not everyone just waltzes into $50k+ fights. If they are dedicated to becoming a pro who makes big money, they'll spend what money they can afford to make it there. Personally I've never had to pay extra for 1 on 1 training. I didn't know that was a thing at all. Perhaps Australia is different but our gyms that was included in our gym fee.

I was being facetious.

Pros should pay higher training fees than others, and the model of the trainer making a percentage of their purse is dumb. If fighters didn't pay, trainers should be salaried by the facilities they operate in and should be paid directly by managers/promoters.

 

[SandisLL]

Wait a minute...Pros PAY for their training??

Yes.
A lot of pro fighters does have contracts with managers, gyms and coaches.... and boxer's promoters etc...

There isn't only just pure immediate reward, sponsonrs etc might invest in fighter if they are thinking that said guy will be something notable in ams or pro ranks.
+ sparring partners too usually are paid and nutritioned etc. At least in europe. Ofc this is about partners with enough notable resumes for said prospect.....

While ofc fighters often doesn't have $ or sponsors
..
.

 

[SandisLL]

In Australia as a pro it can go two ways
1. You pay for your training like any other fighter at the gym, you get your corner men and coach on fight night as usual. Your fight purse goes to you.

2. You don't pay for your gym training, your coach and corner men show up to your fight night and they get a cut of your purse.

Also TS assumes that fighters have 0 money. Low level pros usually have a job and train after work. Not everyone just waltzes into $50k+ fights. If they are dedicated to becoming a pro who makes big money, they'll spend what money they can afford to make it there. Personally I've never had to pay extra for 1 on 1 training. I didn't know that was a thing at all. Perhaps Australia is different but our gyms that was included in our gym fee.

Ofc for pro boxing IMHO some first fights might be just even investment with more loss in capital than take home purse ....
Initially this is investment more than payday....far more than payday.

We have different stuff. $ initially or partially $ and there depends are you some kind of top am or maybe pro prospects.
While we have more problems with sparring partners than U.K or U.S.
Guy just might tell STFU if he isn't enough interested and will not be offered $. Why he should bother if he isn't enough interested ? Local supermarket always will offer some salary.

 

[Woldog]

I was being facetious.

Pros should pay higher training fees than others, and the model of the trainer making a percentage of their purse is dumb. If fighters didn't pay, trainers should be salaried by the facilities they operate in and should be paid directly by managers/promoters.

Here it's the same fee for everyone. I guess because we don't have the same talent pool a lot of gyms survive off having a few decent pros to draw the ammys/wannabe street fighters in. My gym was for all intensive purposes a pro focused gym. But it's lifeblood was the hundreds of ammy members who just wanted to get fit and learn how to fight. They didn't have much interest in actually fighting but they didn't want to go to a mcdojo boxercise gym.

 

[Kung Fu Kowboy]

I was being facetious.

Pros should pay higher training fees than others, and the model of the trainer making a percentage of their purse is dumb. If fighters didn't pay, trainers should be salaried by the facilities they operate in and should be paid directly by managers/promoters.

Forget pay.

I would want that Reebok 30% off coupon the fighter gets

 

[Trabaho]

That's like the least thing that will hold you back from becoming a professional fighter
95% of fighters start with the basics

It's really on you and how much you love it

 

[Sinister]

Here it's the same fee for everyone. I guess because we don't have the same talent pool a lot of gyms survive off having a few decent pros to draw the ammys/wannabe street fighters in. My gym was for all intensive purposes a pro focused gym. But it's lifeblood was the hundreds of ammy members who just wanted to get fit and learn how to fight. They didn't have much interest in actually fighting but they didn't want to go to a mcdojo boxercise gym.

The model of pros drawing people fails hard here in the US. Tocco's almost shut down under that sort of thinking, and every fighter with a name tries to start their own gym based on the idea that their name will sell it. Roy Jones Jr had to shut down a gym here, Jorge Paez had to shut down a gym here, Devin Haney's gym went to Shawn Porter, then it shut down. 50 Cent's gym shut down here.

On the grass roots level boxing is all f*cked up as a Sport. There's too much nonsense, self-help guru vibes, or wannabe tough guy stuff going on. Boxing just needs sound institutions with good programs, and incentivization for qualified savvy trainers to either work there, or train the staff. Right now in the US it's still like the Wild West. Gyms don't pay trainers, gyms run by guys with names are full of clout-chasers and phonies, and the savvy trainers work full time jobs and train on the side, or struggle like crazy.

 

[GordoBarraBJJ]

Because they're giving a percentage of their fight $$$$ to the gym/academy/coach.

 

[StopDucking]

The model of pros drawing people fails hard here in the US. Tocco's almost shut down under that sort of thinking, and every fighter with a name tries to start their own gym based on the idea that their name will sell it. Roy Jones Jr had to shut down a gym here, Jorge Paez had to shut down a gym here, Devin Haney's gym went to Shawn Porter, then it shut down. 50 Cent's gym shut down here.

On the grass roots level boxing is all f*cked up as a Sport. There's too much nonsense, self-help guru vibes, or wannabe tough guy stuff going on. Boxing just needs sound institutions with good programs, and incentivization for qualified savvy trainers to either work there, or train the staff. Right now in the US it's still like the Wild West. Gyms don't pay trainers, gyms run by guys with names are full of clout-chasers and phonies, and the savvy trainers work full time jobs and train on the side, or struggle like crazy.

A trainer’s reputation is more important than the gym he’s at imo. If you make it as a trainer, the money will follow you wherever you go.

 

[Sinister]

A trainer’s reputation is more important than the gym he’s at imo. If you make it as a trainer, the money will follow you wherever you go.

Kinda. I'm literally living through this right this second. Tocco's shut down and I had to move gyms a year or so ago. Not ALL the money followed me and I really had some rough months. Right now we dont even put my youngest Son in daycare so we can save money, I do one of my 3 classes at my house and for the first few weeks hardly anyone came.

The thing Tocco's had going for it was foot traffic. People were always wandering in just because of the name. I never went a few weeks without a possible new student, let alone months. And I do market myself. Flyers, cards, social media, etc. The gym we're at now has significantly less foot traffic and the owners dont do advertising. In fact very few boxing gyms do advertising the way they should. Gym owners are notoriously cheap on things like that because boxing has the reputation of being grimy...to them that means "oh so I can own a gym and not do sh*t."

 

[DoctorTaco]

A trainer’s reputation is more important than the gym he’s at imo. If you make it as a trainer, the money will follow you wherever you go.

Every successful combat sports gym has a robust and flourishing set of programs for kids and hobbyists. The highest of the high level coaches can live off of purse percentage, but as a general rule I lose money on my fight team and make money with fitness boxing, training hobbyists, and private lessons for white collar workers.

 

[Sinister]

Every successful combat sports gym has a robust and flourishing set of programs for kids and hobbyists. The highest of the high level coaches can live off of purse percentage, but as a general rule I lose money on my fight team and make money with fitness boxing, training hobbyists, and private lessons for white collar workers.

IMO this is something Coaches need to be discussing, how gyms pay and function. I've seen every reason gyms fail, from not being willing to invest in the facility to investing too much into the facility but coaching is terrible. There's always something gym owners dont want to pay for.

The purse percentage model is pretty terrible. I tell my guys if ANY of them make a million dollars for a fight, how many of them do I need to see that same million? Then I ask them what Coach they know with 10 fighters making a million dollars. We need much better structure on the ground level, getting paid out of the fighters' money cripples us.

 

[DoctorTaco]

IMO this is something Coaches need to be discussing, how gyms pay and function. I've seen every reason gyms fail, from not being willing to invest in the facility to investing too much into the facility but coaching is terrible. There's always something gym owners dont want to pay for.

The purse percentage model is pretty terrible. I tell my guys if ANY of them make a million dollars for a fight, how many of them do I need to see that same million? Then I ask them what Coach they know with 10 fighters making a million dollars. We need much better structure on the ground level, getting paid out of the fighters' money cripples us.

i absolutely agree. I’ve never liked it for a bunch of reasons: I don’t want my decision making process as a coach clouded by money. I don’t want to be an employee of my fighters. It gets real tough when they’re on a losing streak and I’m there waiting to get paid. None of it has ever sat right with me.

The only gym I’ve seen that pays its high level coaches a good salary instead of purse percentage is the ATT mother ship in Florida. They’ve got Dan lambert bankrolling the operation so I’m sure things are a little different than your average gym.

personally, I do well enough with the hobbyists to lose money on fighters and have it all be ok. When I need help at a tournament I’ll ask some of my coaching staff to volunteer their time the same way I did for them, or their coaches did when they were ammy. If I’m desperate then I’ll pay them for their time. I’ve got one pro who’s building his career and fighting for peanuts. I tell him to keep the purse, he’s the one fighting the dude, not me.

 

[Sinister]

i absolutely agree. I’ve never liked it for a bunch of reasons: I don’t want my decision making process as a coach clouded by money. I don’t want to be an employee of my fighters. It gets real tough when they’re on a losing streak and I’m there waiting to get paid. None of it has ever sat right with me.

The only gym I’ve seen that pays its high level coaches a good salary instead of purse percentage is the ATT mother ship in Florida. They’ve got Dan lambert bankrolling the operation so I’m sure things are a little different than your average gym.

personally, I do well enough with the hobbyists to lose money on fighters and have it all be ok. When I need help at a tournament I’ll ask some of my coaching staff to volunteer their time the same way I did for them, or their coaches did when they were ammy. If I’m desperate then I’ll pay them for their time. I’ve got one pro who’s building his career and fighting for peanuts. I tell him to keep the purse, he’s the one fighting the dude, not me.

Your first paragraph triggered a huge epiphany on how fighters get scammed so easily by nonsense trainers and how the "guru" style trainers became a thing. They're usually charismatic people who cater to the fighter's ego by giving them that "you're the boss, I work for you" type line of bullsh*t, but at the same time they're sneakily dominating the fighter's existence.