How do I approach very large fat/muscular grapplers?

Discussion in 'Grappling Technique' started by ARONAbeatFEDOR***, Aug 3, 2010.

  1. ARONAbeatFEDOR***

    ARONAbeatFEDOR*** Blackest Belt

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    Recently I've rolled with a very large guy, he's about 5'10 and weighs around 320-30lbs. I try shooting in on him, but its like shooting in on a rhino and I fail miserably. I can barely even fit my legs around him when he's in my guard, and I feel extremely gassed after about 5 minutes rolling around with him. He hasn't subbed me yet, but he can usually get me on points. How should I approach guys like this? I was thinking about pulling guard immediately, any suggestions?
     
  2. joe90210

    joe90210 Blue Belt

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    arm drag, take the back.
     
  3. SuperSuperRambo

    SuperSuperRambo Senior Moderator Senior Moderator

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    Are you a lot better than him? If not, prepare to get smashed every time for a long time against him.

    You want to be on top against those types, where they can't put their weight on you, and where you can use your speed more effectively. From bottom, I would use an open guard. Arm drags, omoplata, these are my go-to moves against such opponents.
     
  4. ARONAbeatFEDOR***

    ARONAbeatFEDOR*** Blackest Belt

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    I would like to think if we were the same size I could sub him in a matter of minutes, but the size factor really plays a part (I hate to admit it). When I have his back I can't sink in my arms for a rear naked, his neck/shoulder/face combination is just to thick when he pushes his head down. Sometimes he can even shrug me off (no matter how deep my hooks are). I can't even mount him properly because of his stomach, I kinda have to balance myself on top him, but by that time he can just shrug me over to guard. Arm drags I've tried, but I can't hit them on him like other people. As for omoplata's I can't really work myself underneath him to even get it off, I'm in a real bind.
     
  5. Red Harvest

    Red Harvest Orange Belt

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    Smack him in the pills.


    Definitely play the top game with him. That's a lot of dude to be laying on top of you. Also, don't gas yourself. Breathe easy and let your technique do it's job. I wouldn't pull guard on him. If you do end up in guard, try using an open or butterfly guard. Don't waste your energy trying to put him in closed guard.
     
  6. Red Harvest

    Red Harvest Orange Belt

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    Also, you can use the gi to choke from the back. It's not necessary to always get the RNC.
     
  7. akharon

    akharon Blue Belt

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    You're just gonna have to use your speed & cardio advantage. You can indeed get a RNC on him, you'll just have to work on your setups and crossfaces. Mount can be hard on those guys, I prefer side control and keep the pressure on 100% (stay on your toes for starters).
     
  8. redaxe

    redaxe Silver Belt

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    Forget about closed guard. Push off and go to spider guard, DLR guard or feet on hips open guard. To sweep a guy that heavy you have to use your hamstrings and quads and butt (the strong muscles that power your legs) to push on his hips, off-balance him, trip him, kick his legs out from under him, etc.
     
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2010
  9. thegreenblender

    thegreenblender Brown Belt

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    I've said it before, I'll say it again, the fat-muscle grappler is a dangerous beast. He can be as daunting as the overrated "lanky long-limbed" grappler. Nothing to grab, incredible pressure, sprinkle some technique on that and , LAWDY

    I've dealt with his kind before. Everything posted so far is correct. I might add that although it might seem difficult to get on such a massive one, shoulder locks are win against these guys. 9/10 times they have no shoulder flexibility, a few inches = tap. A good one to maximize your leverage, is get a triangle (if you can get that far), and although you will find it difficult to apply the appropriate pressure--what with there wide-ass shoulders and gargantuan neck--try to hook under their elbow and apply the shoulder lock (don't know what else to say about that, other than you can see the technique in Maia's Triangle instructional).
     
  10. nerraw

    nerraw White Belt

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    Try the bow-and-arrow choke if you're using a gi. Or just try to keep moving until he gets tired. I can't imagine someone of those proportions having much of a gas tank.
     
  11. Red Harvest

    Red Harvest Orange Belt

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    I also remember seeing a video of Renzo's regarding getting triangles on much larger opponents. It's probably on youtube or something.
     
  12. thegreenblender

    thegreenblender Brown Belt

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    I might add that I'm 6'3" so I can at least get the triangle position even on larger guys. If you are of a smaller breed, you probably should just stick to open guard/sweeping. Personally I'm not big on open in these situations as a taller guy, I find that if they manage to stuff a leg to half guard I'm at severe leverage disadvantage compared to my stubby brethren who can easily shrimp to butterfly or X, or otherwise get their legs back underneath them. Although, some deep half works alright.
     
  13. Jagcorps_esq

    Jagcorps_esq Red Belt

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    Approach him with cookies.
     
  14. hughes fan

    hughes fan Silver Belt

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    Single limb subs like knee bars and omoplatas. Even armbars are risky just based on whether or not he has a big chest.
     
  15. genomalkin71**

    genomalkin71** White Belt

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    Instead of shooting in for a double or single leg, try clinching with him and looking for a trip.

    Even if you dont land right on top of him, it should create a scramble were you can use your (im guessing here) speed advantage and gain a dominant position.

    Also, if/when you do get top position. Try tiring him out by just making sure you maintain your position for a certain time of each round. Dont worry about subs, advancing pos. ect. If you get a top pos you feel comfortable holding him in, keep it for most of the round and work hard for subs at the end.
     
  16. thegreenblender

    thegreenblender Brown Belt

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    It's going to be hard to maintain position if you get on top and passed his guard. The fat guy turtle can be nigh impossible to stop. It's like a great rhino rolling underneath you, and then you have the same problem of trying to choke his fat-guy neck. I suggest you crossface with wicked intent and may even want to clasp the inside of his close knee and pull up, to prevent the ridiculous fat-guy turtle ability. Just cook him there for a bit. If you think, "Oh, yah, I'm totally sidemounted, gonna try to start taking arms and stuff" while he's fresh, he'll inevitably defend and crush his way back on top. Unless you've got a humdinger of a submission.
     
  17. underwater

    underwater Green Belt

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    I can imagine an omoplata being very difficult to execute on somebody with thick arms, wouldn't it be easier to just force your way out?
     
  18. Red Harvest

    Red Harvest Orange Belt

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    Fat-guy turtle ability floored me. HA!
     
  19. thegreenblender

    thegreenblender Brown Belt

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    If you're significantly lighter, they can usually sit up with ridiculous ease. If you can quickly insert a hook with your foot on their far arm, and do that variation that puts a lock on their shoulder, you've got a good chance of taking advantage of typical big-man sissy-shoulders and getting a tap.
     
  20. SuperSuperRambo

    SuperSuperRambo Senior Moderator Senior Moderator

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    What I meant is, unless you're about a belt rank above him, he'll always give you a very hard time at the very least, and smash you most of the time. To neutralize someone that much larger, you need to be that much better.
     

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