how could history be different if previous fighters got the DW treatment?

[Dionysian]

So Izzy is 1-2 in his last three but is somehow getting his 4th title fight in a row.

Conor hasn't competed in years and is addicted to drugs + hasn't won a LW fight since Obama was president yet is likely at most one "fight" away from a LW title shot.

This got me thinking... if previous fighters got this sort of treatment, how could their careers have played out differently?

- If DJ was given an insta-rematch after setting the all-time defense record and then losing one SD, he likely would have the eclipsed many more people in the GOAT conversations. Instead, after he lost one SD (after setting the all-time defense record) he was fired from the company lol

- If Semmy Schilt got the Cyril/Alex/Sean treatment (competing professionally at the top org while somehow literally fighting zero fighters with a grappling base) he could have been the Pride HW champ... or at the very least replicated what Gane did and be awarded multiple title shots that he'd lose while getting out-grappled

- If Islam, early on, got the Herb treatment (marketing favorites drop others = insta-KO called but if marketing favorites get dropped = every chance given to stay in the fight) he'd be undefeated still / likely rival Khabib's mystique by now

- If Khamzat was given 3 title shots like Colby (when Khamzat has a much bigger win than anything Colby has EVER done at WW) he likely would be double champ by now instead of being lambasted by fans who somehow blame him for the fact that the US has banned him from competing in multiple continents solely in an attempt to politically virtue signal

- If Fedor was given the Jon treatment he could have retired from competition in 2009 after looking to have slowed vs Rogers / be declared eternal GOAT while not competing / announce the only fight allowed to be made would be him vs Randy which would be announced to be the sole determinant of all-time GOATness. There would be no undisputed HW belt holder for half a decade while fans tried to figure out why a very-old Randy was not competing (hint: he'd be retired the whole time). Fedor would be the undisputed consensus GOAT in all Sherdog polls.

These are just a few off the top of my head... what do you got? If history was changed so that a past fighter got the DW special, how would things look differently?

 

[HHJ]

Semmy Schilt's legs made it almost impossible for him to consistently defend takedowns. Thats why he left MMA. His legs are just too long. You wouldnt have to be a grappler to take him down.

 

[Dionysian]

Dana cant make someone popular.

They can only amplify whats there.

Khamzat didnt need colby treatment cos he beat whoever he was fighting anyway.

I'm not talking popularity or marketing brother, I'm talking career arcs. Cyril wasn't a star when he was protected from fighting any grappler and was awarded a title shot off beating brawler Derrick Lewis, then out-grappled by D1 Francis, then was awarded a second title shot off beating brawler Tai Tuvasa, then out-grappled by shoe-in Jon. Look at his record... ZERO grappling opponents period.

Besides... career tracks determine marketing. If K1 GOAT Schilt was given that same treatment that Cyril got (never fighting grapplers) imagine how much better he'd be perceived within the context of his MMA career and record.

Semmy Schilt's legs made it almost impossible for him to consistently defend takedowns. Thats why he left MMA. His legs are just too long. You wouldnt have to be a grappler to take him down.

And you don't have to be a grappler to take Cyril down. Watch the Francis fight.

Put Schilt up against Lewis/Taivasa/Bigi Boy/old JDS in kickboxing matches and see how he looks.

 

[jeff7b9]

Islam wasn't a star when he got KOed and it is Khamzats own goddamn fault he can't make it to the cage.

Fail. He was already getting the special treatment by being given a layup matchup vs old foot out the door Nate Diaz. How on earth can you cry about a guy that literally doesnt show up prepared to do his fucking job?
______


DJ is a goat.
That's just a fact.
Only idiots and haters say otherwise.

But he seemed happier in OneFC and they paid him well and he won and defended the belt over there. Personally I feel like that does ad to his legacy. Adriano Moraes is a stud and had a HUGE size advantage over him.
Those wins are just as legit as UFC title fight wins in my book.

 

[Kwic]

If Aldo could move up when he wanted and not being forced to give up his belt he could have been the first simultaneous double champ.

 

[Dionysian]

No.

Islam wasn't a star when he got KOed and it is Khamzats own goddamn fault he can't make it to the cage.


Fail.
______


DJ is a goat.
That's just a fact.
Only idiots and haters say otherwise.

But he seemed happier in OneFC and they paid him well and he won and defended the belt over there.

Don't think you followed what I was saying.

I made the point that Islam wasn't a star when he got "KOd". If he WAS then he wouldn't have got "KOd" in that the fight would not have been instantly stopped as soon as he was dropped.

I made the point DJ would have been MORE of a GOAT. Obviously more title defenses/wins would be seen higher by the public than what happened (never fighting in the UFC again).

I get you don't like Khamzat but it has nothing to do with what I was talking about: which is if he got 3 title shots like Colby how he'd be perceived differently.

If Aldo could move up when he wanted and not being forced to give up his belt he could have been the first simultaneous double champ.

Good one. Absolutely. He wanted to move up when Frankie was LW champ right?

 

[jeff7b9]

Don't think you followed what I was saying.

I made the point that Islam wasn't a star when he got "KOd". If he WAS then he wouldn't have got "KOd" in that the fight would not have been instantly stopped.

I made the point DJ would have been MORE of a GOAT. Obviously more title defenses/wins would be seen higher by the public than what happened (never fighting in the UFC again).

I get you don't like Khamzat but it has nothing to do with what I was talking about: which is if he got 3 title shots like Colby how he'd be perceived differently.

Khamzat HAS gotten special treatment and still isn't champ. No one to blame but his own unreliable ass.

I'm not sure I even follow your Islam argument? Did he have a near stoppage before hand? (I dont recall exact details of the fight) Or are you saying he should have continue to get beat on after being dropped?
________


You seem to want to ignore that such "privilege" is arguably earned beforehand by establishing themselves as a star/champ/draw.

Even Conor went thru a damn murderers row to get to his first title shot.
Holloway, Poirier, Chad Mendes, etc.

Colby was 15-1 and beat Stun Hun, Maia, RDA, and Robbie Lawler in a row to get his first shot.

If Khamzat wants "the Colby treatment" then where is his streak of 4 contenders and champs? His best win is arguably Usman who hasn't won in 3 years and was coming off the couch on short notice. Or Burns who looked great at the time but is now 3-4 in his last 7.

At best you could say Khamzat has now "earned" his first shot, but how many pull outs does that shot remain in place thru?
You could be employee of the month last month but if you skip work every day afterwards you are not the company favorite anymore.

_____


Mighty Mouse I agree with.
Hence my point that those who know what is up SHOULD rightly place him in GOAT status.

The other examples not so much.

 

[jeff7b9]

If Aldo could move up when he wanted and not being forced to give up his belt he could have been the first simultaneous double champ.

THIS is a good example.

Aldo could have been triple champ if he got Conor treatment. He EARNED it imo by defending 7-9x at the top level, long unbeaten streak, went thru generations of contenders and continued to win even with injuries taking away his best weapons.

No doubt in my mind he would have been likely to beat Frankie at 155 who he did in fact beat decisively twice. And Aldo and Renan Barao were literally the exact same size- height, weight and reach and chose to fight in separate divisions since they were teammates. Aldo proved he could compete at 135 so I see no reason to think he wouldn't have beaten the guys Barao beat and could have held that strap for a while, if he was given the opportunity.

 

[jeff7b9]

If Aldo could move up when he wanted and not being forced to give up his belt he could have been the first simultaneous double champ.

First off, fucking amen brother

Second- if Aldo spoke English, this would have happened.

There is an obvious double standard. Conor and BJ and DC get to keep belt while pursuing 2nd title, Aldo was told he had to vacate. GSP gets to cherrypick a good matchup to jump the line for a 2nd title but Anderson Silva who had legit top 5 wins in 3 weight classes only gets to fight non title fights outside MW.

 

[Luthien]

Dana hated DJ - Not going to happen

 

[skylolow]

Us morons is reason the "Dana treatment" even exist on whatever level.

Fighters who are draws get special treatment,shocking. The UFC is a business and if they can at least on the smallest level put together a match that will out sell any other option they will do it if both guys are for it. They have zero problems jumping line for the short term gain and fans eat it up and that is why they keep doing it.

 

[Dionysian]

Khamzat HAS gotten special treatment and still isn't champ. No one to blame but his own unreliable ass.

I'm not sure I even follow your Islam argument? Did he have a near stoppage before hand? (I dont recall exact details of the fight) Or are you saying he should have continue to get beat on after being dropped?
________


You seem to want to ignore that such "privilege" is arguably earned beforehand by establishing themselves as a star/champ/draw.

Even Conor went thru a damn murderers row to get to his first title shot.
Holloway, Poirier, Chad Mendes, etc.

Colby was 15-1 and beat Stun Hun, Maia, RDA, and Robbie Lawler in a row to get his first shot.

If Khamzat wants "the Colby treatment" then where is his streak of 4 contenders and champs? His best win is arguably Usman who hasn't won in 3 years and was coming off the couch on short notice. Or Burns who looked great at the time but is now 3-4 in his last 7.

At best you could say Khamzat has now "earned" his first shot, but how many pull outs does that shot remain in place thru?
You could be employee of the month last month but if you skip work every day afterwards you are not the company favorite anymore.

_____


Mighty Mouse I agree with.
Hence my point that those who know what is up SHOULD rightly place him in GOAT status.

The other examples not so much.

Refer to my HHJ reply in terms of this concept of privilege being bestowed only on those who "earned" it. Starpower is dependent on career arc... not the reverse. If Cyril was submitted on an undercard in his first UFC by the first grappler he fought in his lifetime no one would know who the fuck he is today. Instead he is a multiple title-shot contender. It makes a huge difference. This is a popular DW talking point that's been successfully internalized at Sherdog: all outwardly visible corruption is ok because the person benefitting from it is so innately special that they deserve the deck to be rigged for them. Nah that's bullshit.

On Islam: Yes, I'm saying the stoppage would not have been called a KO if Islam was a star. Watch the fight again. Textbook insta-stoppage. At least you concede you don't remember it though, so props for being honest.

On Khamzat/Colby:
Colby's biggest career WW win by far was RDA.
Khamzat's biggest career WW win was Burns. Gilbert was ranked #2. FOTY contender too.
Colby got 3 title shots. Khamzat got 0. I think it is weird you are even arguing this honestly. The fact you keep bringing up Khamzat's visa being banned today as having some bearing on whether he would have benefitted from getting the DW Colby treatment is also weird. Whatever though, I'll let it go.

 

[Dionysian]

Dana hated DJ - Not going to happen

That's my point. If he didn't hate him and instead gave him an insta-rematch vs Henry so DJ could win the rubber match and then rack up another 6 title defenses at FLW... imagine the clout DJ would carry today in GOAT conversations.

Fighters who are draws get special treatment,shocking.

Alex/Cyril/Sean all were not draws when their road to title shots in 3 separate divisions were all inexplicably paved with them facing exactly 0 grapplers combined between all 3 of them.

Special treatment creates stars more than stars create special treatment.

 

[jeff7b9]

Refer to my HHJ reply in terms of this concept of privilege being bestowed only on those who "earned" it. Starpower is dependent on career arc... not the reverse. If Cyril was submitted on an undercard in his first UFC by the first grappler he fought in his lifetime no one would know who the fuck he is today. Instead he is a multiple title-shot contender. It makes a huge difference. This is a popular DW talking point that's been successfully internalized at Sherdog: all outwardly visible corruption is ok because the person benefitting from it is so innately special that they deserve the deck to be rigged for them. Nah that's bullshit.

On Islam: Yes, I'm saying the stoppage would not have been called a KO if Islam was a star. Watch the fight again. Textbook insta-stoppage. At least you concede you don't remember it though, so props for beindemonize.

Star power or special treatment or not I am not a fan of stoppage by knockdown.

I would prefer to see ANY fighter have at least a chance to defend themselves or if they can't then have the fight go to a decisive conclusion.

Aside from MAYBE protecting less experienced fighters from excess trauma, i dont think star power should be a factor.

I maintain though that Islam was not yet a star at that point.

On Khamzat/Colby:
Colby's biggest career WW win by far was RDA.
Khamzat's biggest career WW win was Burns. Gilbert was ranked #2. FOTY contender too.
Colby got 3 title shots. Khamzat got 0. I think it is weird you are even arguing this honestly. The fact you keep bringing up Khamzat's visa being banned today as having some bearing on whether he would have benefitted from getting the DW Colby treatment is also weird. Whatever though, I'll let it go.

All of Colby's privilege that you speak of occurred AFTER he earned and won his first title shot.

Why would Khamzat get multiple title shots without first proving he can actually show up to work and make weight?

All he would have had to do to have fought for the title years ago by this point was beat a contender in their actual weight class they are ranked in and then be able to book and show up for a fight in that weight class in a reasonable time and make weight.

Your Khamzat inclusion here is nonsensical. He is already getting special treatment, allowed to manipulate the towel to make weight, seemingly only fighting in the middle east, getting booked for MW fights against WWs.

Exactly how much more special treatment do you think Khamzat should get?
And WHY?

 

[Dionysian]

Star power or special treatment or not I am not a fan of stoppage by knockdown.

I would prefer to see ANY fighter have at least a chance to defend themselves or if they can't then have the fight go to a decisive conclusion.

Aside from MAYBE protecting less experienced fighters from excess trauma, i dont think star power should be a factor.

I maintain though the Islam was not yet a star at that point.




All of Colby's privilege that you speak of occurred AFTER he earned and won his first title shot.

Why would Khamzat get multiple title shots without first proving he can actually show up to work and make weight?

Your Khamzat inclusion here is nonsensical. He is already getting special treatment, allowed to manipulate the towel to make weight, seemingly only fighting in the middle east, getting booked for MW fights against WWs.

Exactly how much more special treatment do you think Khamzat should get?
And WHY?

First off, fucking amen brother

Second- if Aldo spoke English, this would have happened.

There is an obvious double standard. Conor and BJ and DC get to keep belt while pursuing 2nd title, Aldo was told he had to vacate. GSP gets to cherrypick a good matchup to jump the line for a 2nd title but Anderson Silva who had legit top 5 wins in 3 weight classes only gets to fight non title fights outside MW.

Ok so you full-on agree with my premise but didn't like some of the fighter examples I cited. Fair enough.

My point with Islam was that if he was getting the DW treatment back then he'd have a 0 in his loss column and therefore be more of a star today. I'm repeatedly saying he was NOT a star back then but you keep pointing out to me that he wasn't a star back then, as if we are arguing the point... we're not man.

 

[markg171]

Khamzat HAS gotten special treatment and still isn't champ. No one to blame but his own unreliable ass.

I'm not sure I even follow your Islam argument? Did he have a near stoppage before hand? (I dont recall exact details of the fight) Or are you saying he should have continue to get beat on after being dropped?
________


You seem to want to ignore that such "privilege" is arguably earned beforehand by establishing themselves as a star/champ/draw.

Even Conor went thru a damn murderers row to get to his first title shot.
Holloway, Poirier, Chad Mendes, etc.

Colby was 15-1 and beat Stun Hun, Maia, RDA, and Robbie Lawler in a row to get his first shot.

If Khamzat wants "the Colby treatment" then where is his streak of 4 contenders and champs? His best win is arguably Usman who hasn't won in 3 years and was coming off the couch on short notice. Or Burns who looked great at the time but is now 3-4 in his last 7.

At best you could say Khamzat has now "earned" his first shot, but how many pull outs does that shot remain in place thru?
You could be employee of the month last month but if you skip work every day afterwards you are not the company favorite anymore.

_____


Mighty Mouse I agree with.
Hence my point that those who know what is up SHOULD rightly place him in GOAT status.

The other examples not so much.

Dana White Treatment in 99% of situations is usually hater code for "was already established and/or beat top fighter(s) so got a title shot"

 

[jeff7b9]

Ok so you full-on agree with my premise but didn't like some of the fighter examples I cited. Fair enough.

My point with Islam was that if he was getting the DW treatment back then he'd have a 0 in his loss column and therefore be more of a star today. I'm repeatedly saying he was NOT a star back then but you keep pointing out to me that he wasn't a star back then, as if we are arguing the point... we're not man.

Yes. Good premise, I don't agree with some of the examples. But there is an interesting discussion to be had on the hypotheticals.

All I'm saying regarding the "privlege" is that there is a pretty established pattern of what will lead to a fighter getting that special treatment. I am not saying it is right, not co-signing any corruption, just being a realist and recognizing that there is a certain set of factors which tend to align to "unlock" that special treatment.

 

[Dionysian]

Dana White Treatment in 99% of situations is usually hater code for "was already established and/or beat top fighter(s) so got a title shot"

... and on cue... the TKO Holdings PR employee gets summoned on the 1st page of any thread that questions their corporate integrity.

Earn that paycheck / dance.

 

[jeff7b9]

Dana White Treatment in 99% of situations is usually hater code for "was already established and/or beat top fighter(s) so got a title shot"

It also follows fairly well established combat sports precedents.

If you generate a lot of money, you will have much easier access to opportunity, title shots etc.

Exciting fighters, fighters who deliver highlights and stoppages, fighters who generate a ton of fan excitement including via controversy and out of the ring shenanigans will have a more direct path to opportunities than boring fighters.

Specifically former champs with established names get the express lane to subsequent title shots.

 

[markg171]

... and on cue... the TKO Holdings PR employee gets summoned on the 1st page of any thread that questions their corporate integrity.

Earn that paycheck / dance.

Your 2 examples of Dana White privilege involve the #2 MW of all time getting a title shot against the guy he was already supposed to defend against in the nearby country he fights out of, and the biggest star of all time and former champion possibly maybe getting a title shot against the protégé of his biggest rival if he were to beat #6.

Yeah, you're a fucking moron and my statement was 100% correct:

Dana White Treatment in 99% of situations is usually hater code for "was already established and/or beat top fighter(s) so got a title shot"