How come Americans are not in same level as europeans in kickboxing?

Discussion in 'Muay Thai and Kickboxing' started by Yrat, Jan 6, 2019.

  1. Kanka

    Kanka Brown Belt

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    Perhaps the talent pool is big enough but the distance fighters would have to travel to fight each others is too big. In comparison an amateur in the uk, netherlands, france just have to travel a couple of hours at most and can get fights pretty easily. More intense local competition would also help developing the US fighters for sure. Of course the training is also important.
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2019
  2. Snubnoze707

    Snubnoze707 High Level

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    That's certainly true. There is only a few spots where there is kind of a scene. Like Bay Area, LA, NY and probably a few others.

    Most guys don't get past smokers because their is no local Amature scene. You have to travel far just to get okay experience. There isn't much incentive for up and coming fighters when MMA and Boxing is way more accessible.
     
  3. jtwarwagon4life

    jtwarwagon4life Green Belt

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    Also the idea that there are mostly just inadequate muay thai instructors in the US, doesn't seem true to me. Alot of good retired fighters have immigrated to the US to become trainers: Jongsanan, Kaensak, Sakmongkol (formerly), Neungsiam, Kongnapa, Matee, Khunpon, Coban and others. Now just because they were good fighters doesn't mean they'll be good trainers, but it's not like these guys will be teaching watered down muay thai either.
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2019
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  4. Kanka

    Kanka Brown Belt

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    Probably good trainers but the infrastructure isn’t there. Even when you have Sakmongkol at you gym you’re still going to have big group classes where your pad holder might be really shitty. The more good trainers and training partners available per gym, the bigger the chances are you succeed.

    I trained at like 6 different gyms apart from training in thailand and while all of them had some notable names including people some big thai names every now and then the differences were huge. The best gym in my opinion the one that had trainers and fighters frequently going to thailand to train during the summer. And they trained to fight, not for the sake of training, so the training itself was better.

    Even evolve muay thai with all those trainers doesn’t seem to produce a lot of good muay thai fighters. I’m not sure the trainers teach the same way they would if they were to be trainers in a smaller gym in thailand.

    Also remember the thread is about kickboxing,but i think it’s interchangable since many kickboxers have a muay thai background
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2019
  5. Monte Moku

    Monte Moku Lurking, mainly

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    America is also really, really big. All of those guys and more have immigrated to the US, but the nearest gym that has anything close to world class training is two states away from me. The best gyms in my area are the regional level Muay Thai gym and the MMA gym that sometimes has their guys do smokers. The west coast and the northeast US are where most of these guys go to, the rest of the country gets the occasional seminar lol.

    Lack of quality instruction is one of the biggest issues with the scene, from my personal experience. I try to learn from everyone when I train, but honestly there are only a handful of coaches I have met who I would really trust to have in my corner.
     
  6. Tayski

    Tayski Stand-up Fighting

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    In Europe we have the opposite challenge "which gym should I join out of all the top level ones around where I live?" :D
     
  7. JoeZayAldo

    JoeZayAldo Blue Belt

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    Americans dont really care about KickBoxing.
     
  8. ChrisCross

    ChrisCross White Belt

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    I see Rugby is growing in USA too
     
  9. moreorless87

    moreorless87 Disarming Posting

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    Moreso the higher weights I would say and I think its the same issue, US sports like the NBA, NFL, etc have increasingly drawn big athletic guys to them where as in Europe there isn't the same draw for soccer based on size so more likely big men end up in fight sport. You look at the dutch HW scene as well and a lot of those fighters come from an immigrant background, the kind of background were a high percentage of great footballers have yet because being 6 foot 4 isnt as much of a priority in that sport they ended up in kickboxing.

    The golden age of HW MMA depended heavily on European talent, Fedor, Crocop, Aleks, Sergei, Arlovski, Igor, Semmy, etc
     
  10. king of theRing

    king of theRing Black Belt

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    The coaches are a big factor. The coaches in Europe are light years ahead than America. And very few notice that. You can't make it against the best when you train with shit coaches.
     
  11. ChrisCross

    ChrisCross White Belt

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    But which European countries is Kickboxing popular as it seemed only France and Holland it was quite big time from the late 1970s onwards with a little mixed scene in England ?
     
  12. king of theRing

    king of theRing Black Belt

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    Holland, france, Germany and england ( not near boxing though) is only ones i really noticed
     
  13. Snubnoze707

    Snubnoze707 High Level

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    The coaches aren't shit, their just isn't many that train fighters specifically for a Kickboxing ruleset because their is nobody fighting in that rule set over here.
     
  14. king of theRing

    king of theRing Black Belt

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    Ok a nicer way of putting it. They are just not at that level yet
     
  15. Snubnoze707

    Snubnoze707 High Level

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    I can't think of anyone that's trying to prepare multiple fighters for international Kickboxing. Most of these Glory random Americans come from MMA gyms. I'm sure their are exceptions that I'm unaware of.
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2019 at 7:18 PM
  16. Mr Mojo Lane

    Mr Mojo Lane Brown Belt

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    1. Americans tend to just go to MMA
    2. Americans don't visit Thailand as much as others
     

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