Media How are our boxing historians in 2025?

[mozfonky]

i feel like a lot of "Ali guys" are blind to boxing

Could be, Ali brought in fans who had little interest in the craft.

As I stated though, I really don't believe in experts but I do think the older announcers and writers knew more and had more interesting observations than what we get. People hated Cosell and Ali chided him after losing to Norton after predicting Ali would win easily ( "Cosell you're always wrong!" Ali right after loss to norton) but Howard wrote and spoke well and even then the old guard writers and announcers were saying he was a huge step down. Better than what we get today.

 

[treelo]

Could be, Ali brought in fans who had little interest in the craft.

As I stated though, I really don't believe in experts but I do think the older announcers and writers knew more and had more interesting observations than what we get. People hated Cosell and Ali chided him after losing to Norton after predicting Ali would win easily ( "Cosell you're always wrong!" Ali right after loss to norton) but Howard wrote and spoke well and even then the old guard writers and announcers were saying he was a huge step down. Better than what we get today.

fanboy used to be on the mics and the books back in the day

now they are doing podcasts and youtube videos

just a different format for the media

 

[Kovalev's "Man Bag"]

It has nothing to do with Floyd. Not sure why you have to try to degrade my opinion then agree with me in your next breath. I didn't start following boxing when Floyd started fighting.

You've always disliked Hauser but you've never really explained why. He isn't a friend to boxing, you say, because why?

 

[mozfonky]

fanboy used to be on the mics and the books back in the day

now they are doing podcasts and youtube videos

just a different format for the media

The old school announcing of guys like Don Dunphy was sufficient. None of this extra shit thats been brought in ever since. Everyone has their biases though, either personally or for a style of fighting. Don Dunphy saw Ali-Frazier 1 very differently than I did. I thought Joe shook the comebacks Ali more times than he or anyone ever would again but Don only saw Joe taking a beating for at least the first several rounds.

 

[Kovalev's "Man Bag"]

@mozfonky Did you ever read any of Thomas Hauser's books on Ali or Frazier?

 

[mozfonky]

@mozfonky Did you ever read any of Thomas Hauser's books on Ali or Frazier?

All the Ali ones. He never wrote one on Joe that I'm aware of.

 

[Kovalev's "Man Bag"]

All the Ali ones. He never wrote one on Joe that I'm aware of.

Maybe I'm thinking of a documentary that he did about Frazier then. He contributed to Joe Frazier: When the Smoke Clears.

 

[mozfonky]

Maybe I'm thinking of a documentary that he did about Frazier then. He contributed to Joe Frazier: When the Smoke Clears.

probably, there is no way to study ali without also knowing a lot about Joe, as butch lewis said, they needed each other like peanut butter and jelly. Joe wrote a bio with Phil Berger about 30 years ago which was very good, there was a semi-recent one that also looked excellent but I only have skimmed through it so far.

I'm a huge fan of Joe's and really think he is a tad underrated because of the highlights where george and ali are pummeling him. Joe on his best night was something and his best night was the first Ali fight, in my opinion, neither was ever the same after that and Joe lost more than ali did even though he won.

 

[treelo]

this is relevant, not a fan of Gareth Davies at all, he seems to be popping up way more than i would like to see

he just seems massively opinionated and not really interested in the nuances of boxing

 

[Kovalev's "Man Bag"]

this is relevant, not a fan of Gareth Davies at all, he seems to be popping up way more than i would like to see

he just seems massively opinionated and not really interested in the nuances of boxing

Yeah I've never been a fan of Davies myself. He covers both boxing and MMA and has for years so he's everywhere. My impression of him has always been that he's the weird spiritual type like some hippie still stuck in the 70s.

 

[godhatesacoward]

does rich the boxing historian count?

 

[Kovalev's "Man Bag"]

does rich the boxing historian count?

Yes. Why not? He has a really good channel.

 

[mozfonky]

does rich the boxing historian count?

rich has the best channel going so far as I know, specializes in the many unsung, talented fighters who are almost always way more interesting than the guys they lose out to.

also, highlights some unsung wars. Last week I watched a fight between bret summers and Joe frazier Jr, a war between two guys who probably never would have enough of the attributes to make it to the top but they gave everything they had. It was brett's (a local fighter who had trained in my gym at one time) last fight and I think it was probably Joe Jr's last high moment before he sank into crime and drugs. Joe Jr. is dead, brett seems to be living a nice quiet life here. both men had their fathers in their corners and both dad's were good leaders and good men. Maybe the fight could have been stopped sooner because brett looked to have no shot of winning but they were very gracious and humble in the postfight, unlike many, many fighters today.

 

[Brendon Katz]

According to the thread of the guy using AI to analyze boxing champs by race, AI thinks African fighters don't exist. I wouldn't rely on AI for anything.

That’s easy to check and obviously false.

 

[ezikel315]

That’s easy to check and obviously false.

Yes you'd think that, but not many people think critically and just take whatever AI spits out at face value.

 

[Brendon Katz]

Yes you'd think that, but not many people think critically and just take whatever AI spits out at face value.

ChatGPT (AI) lists Muhammed Ali and Joe Louis as the number one and two HWs ever.