Social Hospital Under Fire for Forcing Staff Support in Abortion

Lord Coke

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Well what say you I think this is very similar to the wedding cake baker arguments. If you are the only doctor in business should you be forced to perform a abortion? I don't think so what say you?



https://www.courthousenews.com/hospital-under-fire-for-forcing-staff-support-in-abortion/



WASHINGTON (CN) — Federal officials served a violation notice Wednesday to a Vermont hospital that it says forced a nurse to participate in an elective abortion despite her moral objections.

“Please don’t hate me,” a doctor at the University of Vermont Medical Center allegedly said to the nurse as she entered the operating room to assist in what she had been told was a procedure relating to a miscarriage.

Roger Severino, director of the Office for Civil Rights for the Department of Health and Human Services, related the details of the case this morning in a press call.

Despite what she had been deliberately misled into thinking by the hospital, according to the notice of violation, the procedure involved an abortion.

“This put the nurse in a tremendous moral quandary,” Severino said, noting that the nurse asked for relief.

“She had already made her objections known,” he continued, “but she even asked at the moment if something could be done to replace her. … But she was told no.”

A representatives for the University of Vermont Medical Center, which received $1.6 million in federal funding this year, denied that it discriminates. It also said the record does not support today’s violation notice — which it learned about through the press.

“Because this issue involves patient care and personnel matters, we cannot go into as much detail as OCR did today, however, we have engaged with representatives from OCR about the complaint over the past nine months,” the hospital said in a statement. “From the outset and as recently as this month, we have offered to discuss our policies and practices, and to receive OCR’s advice on how those policies and practices may be improved consistent with our obligations to our patients. Unfortunately, OCR instead chose to proceed with the announcement it issued today. We nonetheless remain willing to work cooperatively with OCR to identify any ways in which we can further support our employees’ conscience and religious rights, in a manner that is consistent with high-quality patient care, and the other legal and ethical obligations we have to our patients.”

Severino told reporters meanwhile that the hospital provides some accommodations for the religious and moral convictions of staffers who cannot perform abortions, but that it also allows for organizational discretion when related to staffing assistance.

HHS will give Vermont Medical Center 30 days to decide if it will work cooperatively to change that policy under a set of 1973 laws called the Church Amendments, named for then-Senator Frank Church of Idaho. If the center refuses to comply, Severino said the complaint will be forwarded to the Health Resources and Services Administration, a move that could lead to the revocation of federal funds.

“They can provide fully compliant accommodation procedures and staffing policies, which is what we had required in previous enforcement actions at OCR, or they can decline federal funds,” Severino said. “What they cannot do is receive the federal funds and create conditions where they will be scheduling people who object to abortions and schedule them to assist and perform abortions.”

Responding to the notice Wednesday, Michelle Truong, program associate at the International Women’s Health Coalition, emphasized that it’s not so easy to pass off patients to other, more willing providers.

“The reality is when patients are denied care they face increased—and sometimes life-threatening—health risks, mental anguish, and economic stress,” Truong said in a statement.

“By expanding protections for providers that refuse to provide abortion or other reproductive health services, the Trump administration has weaponized religious freedom as a tool of discrimination against women and LGBTQI people.”

Severino said today’s violation notice is not tied to new anti-discrimination protections being rolled out by the Trump administration for individuals and entities exercising conscience-based objections in health care.

The conscience rule had initially been set to take effect last month but HHS pushed the effective date to November in light of ongoing litigation.

“In a country with many contentious issues, we do not want a society where, on the issue of life and death, people are forced to violate their deepest held beliefs about it, especially on the issue of abortion and medical professionals, who enter the medical profession to help save lives, not take lives,” Severino said.

Katherine Ragsdale, interim president and CEO of National Abortion Federation, said in a statement Wednesday that individuals who are uncomfortable with performing their work compassionately should find alternative employment.

“We respect, within reasonable limits, individuals’ rights to act in accordance with their consciences,” Ragsdale said in a statement. “Those health care workers whose consciences do not allow them to provide compassionate care or to perform the duties their patients require and their employers assign should feel free, and encouraged, to find other work.”

Truong echoed this sentiment.

“Providers have an obligation to provide legal health services when requested,” she said.

“So-called ‘conscientious objection’ has no place in health care and is a violation of patients’ rights,” Truong added. “When medical providers refuse to provide health care services, patients and health systems face severe consequences.
 
I can’t fucking believe these insane lunatics want to force people to end a human life.

Fuck that.
 
I find "elective" abortions to be morally abhorrent, but under the law this nurse is still mandated to carry out her job.

it sucks for her, but that's the job. if she doesn't like it she can work somewhere else.
 
Well what say you I think this is very similar to the wedding cake baker arguments. If you are the only doctor in business should you be forced to perform a abortion? I don't think so what say you?

Clear no, but then again, I also don't think doctors who perform abortions should be harassed by crazy activists.
 
I find "elective" abortions to be morally abhorrent, but under the law this nurse is still mandated to carry out her job.

it sucks for her, but that's the job. if she doesn't like it she can work somewhere else.

No it isn’t. No healthcare provider is obligated to be involved in abortions. You’re only obligated to refer patients to a provider who does perform that service. There’s no reason that OR nurse would be assigned to that procedure unless they had a shortage and fucked up the scheduling, which it sounds like happened as they lied to her about what the procedure was. Every hospital I’ve ever worked at has an OR schedule posted in advance with what procedures are occurring in what rooms. So this story sounds fishy unless it’s some back woods hick town hospital.
 
No it isn’t. No healthcare provider is obligated to be involved in abortions. You’re only obligated to refer patients to a provider who does perform that service. There’s no reason that OR nurse would be assigned to that procedure unless they had a shortage and fucked up the scheduling, which it sounds like happened as they lied to her about what the procedure was. Every hospital I’ve ever worked at has an OR schedule posted in advance with what procedures are occurring in what rooms. So this story sounds fishy unless it’s some back woods hick town hospital.

Its in Vermont so I think you answered your own question
 
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So when a Muslim gets a job at a pizza place and refuses to handle pork, they should get a new job.

But when these people (let's be honest, high probability Christian) decide to work in the medical field and object to medical procedures...we should coddle them?

<puh-lease75>
 
they should get that dr and family from sweden over here
 
You take federal funds, you follow federal rules.
 
So when a Muslim gets a job at a pizza place and refuses to handle pork, they should get a new job.

But when these people (let's be honest, high probability Christian) decide to work in the medical field and object to medical procedures...we should coddle them?

<puh-lease75>

You literally just made that shit up. LOL at advocating for Muslims btw. They don't need your help.
 
You literally just made that shit up. LOL at advocating for Muslims btw. They don't need your help.

Did I make that up? It's a common example in these religious freedom threads, I'm (not) surprised you'd act like you've never seen it before.

And this has nothing to do with muslims, it's religious people in general thinking that their personal sky wizard allows them to opt out of critical goods and services. I said it with Hobby Lobby, the day a religious mark thinks that they can deny healthcare to an individual because of their "deeply held beliefs", shit's gonna be real stupid and we should outright rescind religious protections because you're out of your fucking mind. Well, here we are, and I'm about ready to strip those protections.

You can't apply them equally, and when you have them, you use them as a bludgeon to enforce your will on the secular. They have to go.
 
So when a Muslim gets a job at a pizza place and refuses to handle pork, they should get a new job.

But when these people (let's be honest, high probability Christian) decide to work in the medical field and object to medical procedures...we should coddle them?

<puh-lease75>
TBF @LogicalInsanity straight up said she knew she might have to do it so she can either aid in the procedure or find another job.

For me, *shrug*.... you're in the medical field... last time I checked history the Church tried persecuting doctor's for violating remains and shit when they tried studying diseases and shit so.... God can go suck a fat one if he doesn't like it?

For abortion straight up though as long as it's not elective late term (which to my understanding isn't legal in the US)..... you're a nurse you knew you might have to deal with this.

It's akin to those movies where you see a cop or a member of the military freaking out while getting shot at yelling "I didn't sign up for this". Bitch... YOU'RE AN 11B AND YOU THOUGHT YOU'D NEVER HAVE TO GET SHOT AT?!
<puh-lease75><{fry}>
 
TBF @LogicalInsanity straight up said she knew she might have to do it so she can either aid in the procedure or find another job.

For me, *shrug*.... you're in the medical field... last time I checked history the Church tried persecuting doctor's for violating remains and shit when they tried studying diseases and shit so.... God can go suck a fat one if he doesn't like it?

For abortion straight up though as long as it's not elective late term (which to my understanding isn't legal in the US)..... you're a nurse you knew you might have to deal with this.

It's akin to those movies where you see a cop or a member of the military freaking out while getting shot at yelling "I didn't sign up for this". Bitch... YOU'RE AN 11B AND YOU THOUGHT YOU'D NEVER HAVE TO GET SHOT AT?!
<puh-lease75><{fry}>

I knew this was coming after the hobby lobby bullshit, I knew it. My example back then was jehovah's witnesses denying blood transfusions, but this is literally that in a shittier flavor.

Like I said, if they can't put their big girl panties on and do their damn jobs, we need to spend some time simplifying it for them. "My religion tells me I can't" clearly isn't going to work for a society that professes all religions (even none) are equal. No, I don't think that'll work at all.
 
I knew this was coming after the hobby lobby bullshit, I knew it. My example back then was jehovah's witnesses denying blood transfusions, but this is literally that in a shittier flavor.

Like I said, if they can't put their big girl panties on and do their damn jobs, we need to spend some time simplifying it for them. "My religion tells me I can't" clearly isn't going to work for a society that professes all religions (even none) are equal. No, I don't think that'll work at all.


This movie comes to mind or that other guy from Ft Lewis that sued the government about not wanting to go to Iraq. You can object to the war all you want no problems there but when your fucking argument at it's base level basically reads as "I signed up for free college and never thought this would happen"

Like bruh... you're in the Army, YOU GET TO PICK YOUR FUCKING MOS YOU DIPSHIT AND YOU'RE IN ARTILLERY!!!! You thought you'd be dropping Howitzers on cardboard tanks your whole 4 years?

If you're in the medical field go ahead and go to Church on Sunday and shit but when you're on the clock leave that shit at the door. This dude didn't want to go to war but when he was sent he was handed a job and fucking did it:


Stop being a putz.
 
TBF @LogicalInsanity straight up said she knew she might have to do it so she can either aid in the procedure or find another job.

For me, *shrug*.... you're in the medical field... last time I checked history the Church tried persecuting doctor's for violating remains and shit when they tried studying diseases and shit so.... God can go suck a fat one if he doesn't like it?

For abortion straight up though as long as it's not elective late term (which to my understanding isn't legal in the US)..... you're a nurse you knew you might have to deal with this.

It's akin to those movies where you see a cop or a member of the military freaking out while getting shot at yelling "I didn't sign up for this". Bitch... YOU'RE AN 11B AND YOU THOUGHT YOU'D NEVER HAVE TO GET SHOT AT?!
<puh-lease75><{fry}>


well said , very well said. I mean, I get the dilemma...but if we all started interjecting our "personal" and religious beliefs in our occupation what kind of shit storm do you think that'll cause?
 
well said , very well said. I mean, I get the dilemma...but if we all started interjecting our "personal" and religious beliefs in our occupation what kind of shit storm do you think that'll cause?
I'd be in jail right along side the fuckers I type PC statements up on.
 
Do your job or you are fired. If your religion makes you unable to do your job, quit.
 
Do your job or you are fired. If your religion makes you unable to do your job, quit.
Here is the only like.... 2 places I might disagree with this.

If you're a coroner. There's aspects to several religions that would preclude men from conducting an autopsy on say a woman and frankly... stuff like that I don't see a huge problem with. Or like say a doctor not really wanting to do an STD swab on someone of the opposite sex as another example.
 
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