History repeats itself

[DonkeyKong]

Remember when you were kids and ninja movies were full on and Karate Kid was the cool thing and everybody thought that martial arts were full of secrets and there were clans that demanded loyalty and so on and so forth?
Well. Now we have Brazilian Jiu Jitsu "clans" that demand loyalty, that won

 

[triso]

Stop hating.

 

[blanko]

compeition is what "evened the playing field" according to a great BJJ competitor. Because you don't "hold back" in compeititon, you want to win so you show everything. And by the time you are a black belt, you know enough bjj to figure something out after you seen it a couple of times.

Remember when you were kids and ninja movies were full on and Karate Kid was the cool thing and everybody thought that martial arts were full of secrets and there were clans that demanded loyalty and so on and so forth?

this will never be with BJJ because people use their best techniques in compeition.

 

[DonkeyKong]

Im a BJJ practitioner. I hate where it

 

[DonkeyKong]

compeition is what "evened the playing field" according to a great BJJ competitor. Because you don't "hold back" in compeititon, you want to win so you show everything. And by the time you are a black belt, you know enough bjj to figure something out after you seen it a couple of times.



this will never be with BJJ because people use their best techniques in compeition.

competition has rules. Eventually to win in competition people will work around the rules. You could never use the X guard in real life. Likewise, there are useless moves in every martial art born out of the sportive aspect. Which have been mixed in with the actual art, resulting in what we have today in most classical martial arts.
by the time you

 

[triso]

STOP WITH THE STREET BULLSHIT!!!!!!

Boxing, Muay Thai, Judo, Wrestling, Jiu Jitsu, Sambo, MMA ... ALL are sports with RULES. Do you think these are more or less effective then Karate, Kung Fu, Ninjitsu, Kenpo, etc., which train for the "street"?

 

[DonkeyKong]

See Art Jimmerson. Pat Smith vs. Ken Shamrock. for the first.
I am not saying that the rules deter the sport. I am saying that focusing your development in a scenario which involves rules will give you false and unrealistic notions of combat.

Helio developed BJJ to fight in real life situations.
And no, I won

 

[MoWy]

You will kick some ass in the street with a BJJ background.

 

[DonkeyKong]

You will kick some ass in the street with a BJJ background.

used to be that it was. let me exemplify what i mean.

how many of you train double leg takedowns against a striking opponent with boxing gloves?
grappling with slapping allowed and no gloves?
escapes from headlocks and bearhugs instead of half-guard passes?

In theory you

 

[blanko]

You could never use the X guard in real life. Likewise, there are useless moves in every martial art born out of the sportive aspect. Which have been mixed in with the actual art, resulting in what we have today in most classical martial arts.

And if you punch the way boxers do without boxing gloves or mma gloves you will break your hand. Does it mean that boxing is "flawed". What is it htat you want? BJJ is tested every day in sport BJJ and in MMA so what else do you want? Friggen cagematches to the death?

 

[DonkeyKong]

And if you punch the way boxers do without boxing gloves or mma gloves you will break your hand. Does it mean that boxing is "flawed". What is it htat you want? BJJ is tested every day in sport BJJ and in MMA so what else do you want? Friggen cagematches to the death?

Yes, as a matter of fact that is a flaw. And so is how easy boxers are taken down. No wonder Helio challenged Joe Louis and several other champs. BJJ is tested as BJJ in tournaments and MMA. I don

 

[Boxeo]

My class trains headlock escapes and etc. We also do the grappler vs. striker drill where the grappler can only grapple and vice versa. When you can submit someone that knows the move and knows the counter to it, you will not have much of a problem making work on a average person.

 

[triso]

Okay, seriously

 

[DonkeyKong]

Okay, seriously

 

[Commissar]

used to be that it was. let me exemplify what i mean.

how many of you train double leg takedowns against a striking opponent with boxing gloves?
grappling with slapping allowed and no gloves?
escapes from headlocks and bearhugs instead of half-guard passes?

In theory you

 

[DonkeyKong]

People like you miss the point. BJJ is a sport. Despite what Helio intended, it's a sport. So is Taekwondo. If you're looking for a pure self defense, look elsewhere and save us from these sorts of threads.

What the hell are you on about, BJJ is not "a sport", it is whatever you train it to be. Nowadays it is ALSO a sport, as most any other martial art. Spoken like a true gringo.
I dont need to look elsewhere, we train self defense at Gracie Barra Recife. So fuck off, I don

 

[triso]

Yes, BJJ is both Self Defense, and Sport.

At my club, we train both. We always have a self defense portion of the class. I think a good solution to the problem you suggest is to have different classes scheduled for each. Self Defense class should be taught on a seperate day at a seperate time. This way if you are only in BJJ for the sport side, you can train that. If you want to train BJJ for the street side of it, you can train that.

Though this may still diminish the whole self defense aspect of Jiu Jitsu, because if students are not forced to learn this as part of the class they attend, and no one wants to train the self defense aspect of it, then it would probably be dropped from the schedule.

My argument is for those who keep saying this is not for the street, and that is not for the street. My point is that, what we learn can be applied to the street fighting scenario, and will help you.

 

[DMcKayBJJ]

Why not just carry a gun/knife/mace/pepper spray for self-defense, and train BJJ for sport and whatever self-defense aspect you can get out of it?

 

[triso]

That is another point i've been making (on multiple threads) for those who are so concerned about Street Fighting and Self Defense.

 

[DonkeyKong]

triso, I agree with you. I also train in BJJ, and naturally I believe in it