Highly effective IBJJF legal ankle lock finish, anyone seen this before?

Discussion in 'Grappling Technique' started by shunyata, Jan 6, 2015.

  1. shunyata

    shunyata Red Belt

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    So one of the more interesting gems I've picked up from Gokor recently is an alternate way to finish the ankle lock that borders on miraculous.

    I don't have a video but essentially this is it. You have the leg controlled, you have the grip, and you're about to settle into a straight ankle lock.

    Many people will have you sort of roll back to your side and finish the ankle lock from there, often while looking back behind you.

    So hear is what Gokor is doing differently.

    He calls it a zig zag lock and basically says that it's a way to use the twisting pressure of a heel hook from a straight ankle lock grip, so it will never get called out in an IBJJF tournament but it still is sort of a twisting lock.

    Even outside of IBJJF rules it's just a much higher % finish in my experience.



    From that position (or any position really where you have the leg controlled and your ankle lock grip in) you simply rotate laterally (generally to the opposite direction of the side you have the lock on, IE your right hand is locking the ankle you rotate to the left around the axis of your spine) before falling away from them to your side.

    This lateral rotation of your trunk puts the ankle into a twisted position such that if you apply the ankle lock pressure after rotating you now have a spiral torquing pressure from that position, far more so than with a vanilla bjj ankle lock.

    Has anyone else seen this little detail from other coaches before? It's kind of blown my mind lately and now people are tapping when I only recline a few inches after the rotation.
     
  2. lechien

    lechien Gold Belt

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    ok, so you are turning on the opposite side of the leg that you have trapped with a straight ankle lock?
     
  3. shunyata

    shunyata Red Belt

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    Yes but turning before you leave a seated position.

    So rotate while still upright before applying the finishing pressure on the lock.

    An easy way to explore this is get into a 50-50 ankle lock position while sitting up with your partner and take turns finishing with the rotation.
     
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2015
  4. Einarr

    Einarr Banned Banned

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    Are you turning into rather than away from your opponent? Because, although a great finish, it is not IBJJF legal.
     
  5. lechien

    lechien Gold Belt

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    Turning the opposite side of the trapped leg will get dq under IBJJF rules.

    It is knee reaping.

    So I teach the legal way and then I let them feel how it feels when you do the "illegal way".
     
  6. shunyata

    shunyata Red Belt

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    The turn is very slight, 3 inches will do.
     
  7. shunyata

    shunyata Red Belt

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    The turn is very slight, 3 inches will do. The grip is 100% the same as a vanilla straight ankle lock.

    And while both into and away from add spiral pressure, away from the locking side feels strongest to me.

    People will generally add a bit of rotation at the end when they look back over their own shoulder but rotating at the begining is what I'm talking about.
     
  8. shunyata

    shunyata Red Belt

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    How is it knee reaping if your torso rotates a few inches but your foot never passes the hip line?
     
  9. selfcritical

    selfcritical Brown Belt

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    How different does it feel from the "Armpit toehold" ankle lock finish Riley does?
     
  10. Knock Out Ned

    Knock Out Ned el mero mero

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    Interesting. I do what you're talking about but turn ever so slightly to the outside. That works fine for me.

    If I get it just right. Guys will tap before I even get to my side or go belly down.
     
  11. Einarr

    Einarr Banned Banned

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    Because you're rotating the knee inwards. I agree that it's bullshit but . . . Yeah.
     
  12. Knock Out Ned

    Knock Out Ned el mero mero

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    Agreed. And I think you'd get DQ'd in an IBJJF match.
     
  13. selfcritical

    selfcritical Brown Belt

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    If it's really a heel hook pressure rather than the "folding" pressure, I would think it would make people tap slower. Ankle locks are fairly painful, and heel hooks aren't. The only reason people tap early is because they know it's dangerous. If the grip disguises that, then people wouldn't tap until it's too late (ie, until you've actually ripped something)
     
  14. lechien

    lechien Gold Belt

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    I will have to see a video to discuss if legal and all.

    If you can tap someone by turning 3 inches on the "wrong" side, that is pretty good technique.
     
  15. Balto

    Balto Silver Belt

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    I think I know what you are describing. I had a guy try it on me in a tournament last year. He fussed with my ankle some before falling back, twisting it to the inside.

    It should be totally legal under the IBJJF rules. At the very least, I could not imagine any ref calling it.

    In that particular instance it was not that effective though. I just relaxed and got out. He did not have enough control of my knee to finish it.
     
  16. shunyata

    shunyata Red Belt

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    Yeah essentially if going through a normal ibjjf ankle lock progression you have the leg isolated and controlled, you control the knee, you move your locking arm into the ankle locke grip, then while still sitting up you rotate your own trunk slightly while you are still sitting up before going through the rest of the standard finish. Your locking hand is glued to your trunk so it rotates too and this (whether you away from or towards the locking side) puts the ankle at a slight diagonal with a spiral torque before you apply the standard straight torque to finish the ankle lock. Putting that stress on the joint prior to executing the standard finish significantly increases the pressure on the joint.

    Obviously if you aren't controlling the limb you aren't finishing any leg lock against a competent opponent but in my experience this torque altera the pressure in such a way that people tap before you can even get your spine parallel to the mat.

    Try it out. It's stupid simple and it blew me away with how much easier it makes it to finish the lock.

    Forget the mention of heel hook, Gokor brought that up simply because to make the point that the heel hook is a twisting lock which often applies spiral pressure to the knee and this minor tweak of adding a spiral pressure to the ankle before applying the standard finishing pressure on the ankle lock puts far more stress on the joint thus coaxing an easier tap.
     
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2015
  17. JustTheTip

    JustTheTip Green Belt

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    Where did you see this? Can you post a video of you doing it?
     
  18. shunyata

    shunyata Red Belt

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    Hayastan. I'm sure if you ask nicely Dan will have 24 videos of it.
     
  19. JustTheTip

    JustTheTip Green Belt

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    What grip is he using? figure 4? Shallow grip(wrist under ankle)? or a deep grip(forearm under ankle)?
     
  20. dallas405

    dallas405 Green Belt

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    I'd like a vid, sounds interesting.
     

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