Heroes of the Storm

[Bob Gray]

Khael doesnt need a nerf, imo. Hes super strong, but squishy as fuck and has no escapes until level 20. Without a proper frontline, he's toasted every time.

 

[Random]

Spent my first 4k gold on Li Li and Valla. Guess I'll save my remaining 4k for Nova for whenever she goes on sale.

 

[Jumpy]

Yeah, Kael is super powerful but super squish. I love him. He, like Sgt Hammer, is all about positioning. Strong front line with good positioning and the increased range on Kael's stun and you're a murder machine. If it were me and those three heroes were my choices for 10k, I'm going with Kael. Actually, he is probably the next 10k hero I'm getting.

 

[Bob Gray]

Spent my first 4k gold on Li Li and Valla. Guess I'll save my remaining 4k for Nova for whenever she goes on sale.

If I'm not mistaken, the gold price never drops for a sale, only the dollar price. Could be wrong though.

 

[echohead]

Keal could one shot people and the devs said bursting isn't something they want in this game.

 

[Random]

If I'm not mistaken, the gold price never drops for a sale, only the dollar price. Could be wrong though.

I think you're right. I most likely just misread an article and convinced myself that the gold price was also halved during a sale.

 

[Bob Gray]

Keal could one shot people and the devs said bursting isn't something they want in this game.

Not really. Even the original ignite talent couldn't one shit anyone, and his living bomb was bugged so it went too many targets or something. He can definitely one shit weakened people, but he can't just tap a skill and kill somebody.

 

[Phelly2]

LiLi needs nerfzzzzzzz.

Her and Kaelthas. Oh and Raynor.

 

[Bob Gray]

I made the greatest typo ever and I'm not changing it.

 

[echohead]

Just one ban each would be nice in HL

 

[echohead]

I am on my phone so I cannot link it but there are a videos from a few days ago of him one shifting people with the bomb.
And that was at even levels

 

[Gref]

LiLi needs nerfzzzzzzz.

Her and Kaelthas. Oh and Raynor.

I feel like all three of them are in a pretty good place.

LiLi is nothing special IMO. Against a coordinated team her viability flatlines as she can be stunned out of jugs and her heals are dumb so you can't be strategic about it. Her damage is decent and blind is nice but she doesn't get cleanse until level 16 IIRC.

KT is walking the line. No doubt he is very good but he is made of glass and if your team doesn't group up when KT is around he can't burst the whole team down. Still, he brings a lot of value to any team that has him. If you could ban a character in HL I don't think people would call for a KT nerf. I think Zeratul is still the best assassin after the patch with KT and Jaina tied for second.

Raynor is like the Ryu of HotS. Simple but effective. What is there about him that you would want to nerf?

 

[brownfeet]

some rough games last night, still tyring to get better with johanna.

Muradin is my dude though, that's who i main when i'm not just goofing around.

 

[taknocks]

Blizz has said they'll be adding bans at some point. Not sure what they're waiting on. Whenever that happens, I hope Zera gets the Kassadin treatment and simply disappears from ranked.

 

[Jumpy]

I am on my phone so I cannot link it but there are a videos from a few days ago of him one shifting people with the bomb.
And that was at even levels

Here is what happens: Fission Bomb and Chain Bomb talents plus his trait, to cast Living Bomb twice. You cast one Bomb on an enemy hero, preferably one standing in a creep wave. You fire your second bomb onto a minion or another hero standing in creep wave. EVERYBODY DIES.

 

[Bob Gray]

I agree with Gref. A good KT on a good team seems unstoppable, but when those two things don't combine KT is chum. I main KT for the most part and it takes awhile to get accustomed to his distance, timing and weaknesses. I seem to do alright but it certainly hasn't been an easy road. He's not a hero you just pick up and start face-rolling. Even a bad KT can get some good damage numbers, but when you see how often he's dying his negatives can counteract his positives.

 

[Bob Gray]

I am on my phone so I cannot link it but there are a videos from a few days ago of him one shifting people with the bomb.
And that was at even levels

I think I've seen some but my understanding was it was due to the bug with living bomb talent that spreads it. The closest thing I could think of that might one shot would be to buff the living bomb on one of a huge number of mobs, then put another one on so that the living bomb and a shit ton of mobs goes off at the same time. I've done that, but it's situational and avoidable by not standing in the middle of a bunch of flaming mobs.

 

[Phelly2]

I feel like all three of them are in a pretty good place.

LiLi is nothing special IMO. Against a coordinated team her viability flatlines as she can be stunned out of jugs and her heals are dumb so you can't be strategic about it. Her damage is decent and blind is nice but she doesn't get cleanse until level 16 IIRC.

KT is walking the line. No doubt he is very good but he is made of glass and if your team doesn't group up when KT is around he can't burst the whole team down. Still, he brings a lot of value to any team that has him. If you could ban a character in HL I don't think people would call for a KT nerf. I think Zeratul is still the best assassin after the patch with KT and Jaina tied for second.

Raynor is like the Ryu of HotS. Simple but effective. What is there about him that you would want to nerf?

Lili
At the very least, Lili is the strongest healer, even if you don't want to go as far as saying she's overpowered.

Yes, you can shut Lili's ultimate down if you have a player whose primary goal in life is to is to wait for her to cast it and then stun her. But she's the only healer who requires a counter-pick in order to keep her under control. Even then, she's still a bully in lane, capable of dueling almost every other hero in the game.

Due to her staying power and durability, she's able to play aggressively, putting out respectable damage (over time)--something very few healers can do (Khazarim and Tyrande maybe, if you spec their talents right--neither of whom compare with Lili's healing prowess)

Not to mention, she also enjoys the highest win percentage of all heroes in the game according to hotlogs.com.

Raynor
His survivability is out of this world. Easy to use, yea, I get that. But it's more that he's nigh impossible to kill. He's the hardest ranged assassin to kill, I think, despite his damage being on par with all the rest. In fact, Raynor usually puts out the highest damage because of his staying power - his ability to stay alive with minimal healing in lane and in any team fight.

An extra 10-15 seconds on the cooldown of his auto self heal would fix him I think. It's too short. He can just play conservatively for a few seconds, and then jump back into the fray, whereas any other assassin would be going back to heal.

 

[The Clinch]

Pretty stoked about Rexxar joining, prolly just going to purchase him straight up so I can attempt to wreck shit.

 

[Phelly2]

I agree with Gref. A good KT on a good team seems unstoppable, but when those two things don't combine KT is chum. I main KT for the most part and it takes awhile to get accustomed to his distance, timing and weaknesses. I seem to do alright but it certainly hasn't been an easy road. He's not a hero you just pick up and start face-rolling. Even a bad KT can get some good damage numbers, but when you see how often he's dying his negatives can counteract his positives.

For sure, KT has a learning curve. He's a glass cannon, I agree. So a good KT will position himself properly prior to the team fight, and attack only after any dedicated Kael-killers have engaged someone else.

But he's almost always the first or second pick in every hero league game (at least where I'm currently at around rank 10) and for good reason. He's always the #1 target for enemy teams for the same reason. Killing him won't guarantee you a win, but failing to kill him will guarantee that you lose.

This only applies at level 13 and above, however. Kael is somewhat weak until level 10. Phoenix changes team fights, and chain bomb completely turns games around. You can be losing badly, but when you hit level 13 and put that point in chain bomb, it's a whole new ball game.

 

[Jumpy]

Pretty stoked about Rexxar joining, prolly just going to purchase him straight up so I can attempt to wreck shit.

he seems like a strong hero in the right hands. As Nova I can kill him in one burst though. Rexxar himself is very squishy. Feign death is awesome though.

 

[taknocks]

A lot of news out of Blizzcon. 3 new heroes in the near future plus Tracer announced as the first Overwatch hero. Cho'Gall is actually controlled by two players and you will be able to unlock him for free by playing with someone who owns him. There will be a new map that plays completely different from the others (you'll be capturing towers instead of directly attacking the core) and a new game mode called Arena.

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[brownfeet]

yeah tested him out yesterday and played against him a few times. from my experience he seems like a very fun player to play as. Not sure i'll grab him quite yet, i'm going to gauge peoples opinions and see if he's worth the snag.

played 2 games as stitches yesterday. What a blast it was to play as him. Only talent i won't be picking again is at lv 10 the putrid bile. didn't feel right w/o me being able to eat players up. Going to run a few more matches w/him tonight but so far he may have taken johana slot for me.

 

[Bob Gray]

Thanks for the vids, Tak. Cho'gall could be really interesting, lawls.

Heres a breakdown of the panel via HeroesNexus:

Who's considered Overpowered right now?

Lili and Murky have the highest win ratios.
Lili has seen increased win ratio due to heroes like Thrall and Raynor being picked more often.
Murky has had a high win ratio for a year now. So even though he isn't picked often in competitive, he isn't the highest priority right now.


Recap 2015

Technical Alpha > Beta > Launch on June
First year for E-Sports on Heroes - Heroes of the Dorm (nationally broadcast and vert big) and Road to Blizzcon Tournaments
11 new heroes added this year - 43 total heroes!
4 new battlegrounds - 9 total!


Balance Tools & Their Uses

The win ratio they strive for Heroes to have is 45-55%.
Heroes like Lost Vikings are at the top, while Abathur and Stitches are more towards the bottom.
Talent pick and win ratio are also an important indicator of hero balance.
Tournaments and E-Sports serve to identify the future meta beforehand - very important to determine necessary balance changes!
Player Feedback is another tool for game balance - Forums, Reddit, Twitter. So keep sending your feedback!


Big Issues

Kerrigan - melee assassin, initiator for her team, all-in aspect getting in the middle of enemies and bolstering her survivability.
She had an extremely low talent diversity - with even low win rates for less picked talents.
Improved Talent Diversity - by sharpening her role, giving her build options, and making her viable in competitive play.
Changed 8 talents, cut 4 previous ones, created 3 new ones - much improved talent diversity!
Uther - melee support, has lots of burst healing, very strong and complete kit. Very stable win rate (across most skill levels) at 50% win ratio.
BUT he's always picked or banned in competitive games.
They believe his strongest trait is to "disrupt coordination". Which is what competitive play is about.
Divine Shield - cooldown from 70 to 90 seconds.
Eternal Devotion - ghost duration decreased from 10 to 8 seconds.
They are meant to be minor changes, to bring him down a notch. They don't want to overdo it!
Cho'Gall
Two-headed hero, controlled by two players. One player is the warrior Cho, who controls the movement, and the other is the assassin Gall, who's responsible for the damage and combo'ing his abilities for maximum impact.
They cannot balance based on a previous template like with Greymane or Lunara. They don't have a "two heroes in one" template.
Playtesting games with Cho'Gall often ended in a snowball, either in favor and against him. Early game advantage / lead grows out of control.
Really hard to balance because he's 2-in-1. If he's ahead then he can wreck havok really easily, and if he's behind he can be picked off and the team immediately loses TWO heroes!
Scaling Changes
65% of the games are really close! (only decided towards the end) ... they wanted more of this.
Cho'Gall helped them realize that scaling was an issue, and what lead to snowballs - hence why they implemented the "Test Map" released on Morales patch.
Benefits
Players can still fight while behind!
Roles were sharpened. Your character feels like what they're supposed to be from the start.
Wins feel more meaningful. It doesn't feel like you're stomping other teams.
Consequences
Early game matters less - which lead to "increased death timers".
Takedowns should be a "power play", which gives you map control and allow you to take objectives more easily.
This is all coming with the Cho'Gall update in a couple weeks!


Future Balance Updates

Gazlowe Updates
Improve E-Sports viability.
Enhance his zone control.
Couple crazy ideas (not sure if they will make it): talent that makes your turrets shoot a laser while you're charging yours; another crazy idea is an active that he starts throwing scraps around and he has to run around and pick them up.


Nova Updates
Improve talent diversity.
She walks a thin line (balance) between casual vs competitive.
Increased skill cap on her skills/talents - one of the ideas being analyzed is "if you land a Snipe, it increases the dmg of your next Snipe by a %".


Tychus Updates
Increase his win rate - it's kinda low now.
If they're only going to make him stronger (flat buffs) he might simply push aside other assassins (Valla, Raynor).
They want him to be a Unique assassin on his own.
Might become a "tank buster" assassin.


Matchmaking & Online Updates

80% of their games are "even" on their matchmaker. That means the MMR numbers are at least well paired.
65% of the games are at least close on levels.
20%~ are launched with the matchmaker knowing that the match is not very well paired.
These are averages, but may vary from player to player. Some player might experience a 95-5% variation, while another experiences bad matches 50% of the time.
Improvements in 2015
Early on for New Users, MMR was inflated (slightly more than "bottom"). They didn't get matched by games played. Now both factors are fixed!
New User win ratio was 38%, which is bad. Now after changes, it's 48%.
Rank was a combination of skill and games played - now there are more placement matches, where rank reflects player skill.
Rebuilding the Matchmaker
The original matchmaker came from Starcraft 2 - but the two games are very different! It's much harder to put together a "fair" match in Heroes due to variation.
Old system builds games quickly, takes into account the thousands of players searching for a match, then starts swapping players to find a "good match". Complicated system that doesn't work when they add rules (similar matchups, parties, not having a support).
The new 10 minute limit (up from 6) does not help that scenario! That's why people are still experiencing bad matches.
New System
Builds games to be good. Relies less on player swapping around. Creates a queue!
On simulations the new system looks much better.
They WANT to release it over the next couple weeks. They cannot promise it, but that's the plan. It's their TOP PRIORITY right now!
2016 Goals / Fixes
Improve MMR accuracy.
Mirror team composition in quick match (not same heroes, but same categories).
They have months of data for calculating "Team MMR".
Use match performance to adjust MMR.
Per Hero MMR adjustment.
Ranked Play
Their original system was a mix of Starcraft + Hearthstone.
The current system is a little bit too harsh. If they want to be accurate (MMR), you're always prone to dropping in ranks.
Right now there's not enough transparency for players (why they ranked up or dropped in ranks).
Death Recap Screen - likely coming early next year! Will contain heals and shields too!


Bans were tested throughout this year on competitive, and the devs loved it. Also coming very soon!
Grandmaster League
Talent Gating (requiring hero or account level to unlock talents) = removed.
Free Hero Rotation from 7 to 10 heroes.
Q&A
They don't really manipulate players' perception on things. If the community tells them a hero is weak or strong, they might wait to either see if the community figures it out, or wait for the community to just PROVE the devs wrong. Both cases are a win-win scenario for them.
The decision to remove 3-4 parties from Hero League was based on the intention to improve the matchmaker - sort of a defensive stance from them. Ideally they want such a good matchmaker that they can re-add 3/4-player parties back to Hero League. Or maybe do an unranked draft.
On Twitch viewership and sheer game popularity - the devs are aware of that, and everything they do (new features, heroes, matchmaker changes) is with the intent of improving the game and making it better.

The balance and matchmaking changes seem like they have tons of potential.

 

[Nights1515]

Rexxas is so easy to stomp out. He has the same HP as Zagara, which is low. Ignore the bear and go for him, most of the time the player will just freak out.

 

[Lionidas]

Just watched the Grand Finals of the World Championship at Blizzcon.
Cloud 9 went 3-0 and won it all.

Match 1: Dragon Shire
-Cloud 9- (winner)
Muradin
Kharazim
Sylvanas
Falstad
Rexxar

-Team Dignitas-
Jaina
Johanna
Sonya
Tassadar
Lt Morales

Bans: Uther, Kael'thas, Tyreal, E.T.C.

 

[Phelly2]

In order to choose which hero to buy, I would go to hotslogs.com.

I'd generally filter by diamond league (master is too small) and look at the heroes with the highest win percentage. Those are your broken heroes.

That website is great because you can also see which talents on each hero have the highest win percentage.

 

[Lionidas]

Match 2: Cursed Hollow

-Cloud 9- (winner)
Uther
Muradin
Sonya
Falstad
Tassadar

-Team Dignitas-
Abathur
Kharazim
KT
Zeratul
Arthas

Bans: Jaina, Sylvanas, Tyreal, ETC

 

[Naramie]

Not sure if I would go by that. Looking at the list Reghar is listed as one of the worst characters in the game if you go by win %. I mean most of those tier lists are subjective but he's typically ranked pretty high on most lists I have seen, either Tier 1 or 2 at worst.

 

[Lionidas]

Match 3: Garden Terror

-Cloud 9- (winner)
Abathur
Uther
Sonya
Leoric
Valla

-Team Dignitas-
Muradin
Lost Vikings
KT
Brightwing
ETC

Bans: Jaina, Zeratul, Tyreal, Kharazim

 

[The Clinch]

Went 5/6 in hero league tonight, which is abnormal.

That one loss was the usual tardfest.

 

[taknocks]

I get annoyed when I run into the weird Murky teams just in QM. Can't imagine how much it sucks losing to that at the World Championship.

 

[Phelly2]

Not sure if I would go by that. Looking at the list Reghar is listed as one of the worst characters in the game if you go by win %. I mean most of those tier lists are subjective but he's typically ranked pretty high on most lists I have seen, either Tier 1 or 2 at worst.

Who does tier lists? Maybe it's just for a lack of looking, but I've never seen any tier lists of heroes.

I realize that win % doesn't tell the whole story--perhaps some heroes synergize well with others, or perhaps the community as a whole isn't playing the character to its potential, but I find that win % on hotlogs is pretty similar to my own experience in game.

 

[brownfeet]

are the builds they used anywhere? would like to see how murdadin and valla were built.

 

[Bob Gray]

Went 5/6 in hero league tonight, which is abnormal.

That one loss was the usual tardfest.

I've noticed a upward trend in my HL ranking as well. Looks like the group queue limit is helping the solo queues.

 

[CrossedLine]

Just starting to play this, sucker for old Warcraft lore so for now I'm a Muradin man. FOR KAHZMODAN

 

[Nights1515]

Who does tier lists? Maybe it's just for a lack of looking, but I've never seen any tier lists of heroes.

I realize that win % doesn't tell the whole story--perhaps some heroes synergize well with others, or perhaps the community as a whole isn't playing the character to its potential, but I find that win % on hotlogs is pretty similar to my own experience in game.

Tons out there but they are all subjective. One I saw listed Arthas as top tier, others put him at the mid to bottom tier.

 

[Jumpy]

Stitches has the worst win rate in the game right now, but God damn is he fun. Hooks all day erry day. Hand of God!