Hendo: Why win/loss is not everything

[BowserJr]

Your "awhile" definition seems to be like 5 months. If even that. Franklin was the UFC's MW champion at the time and many think he was robbed when they fought 3 years later, and obviously Anderson becomes MW champ in 2006 too.

Hendo's a legend, but I don't think he qualifies as an all time great unless it's an all time greatest 2nd placer. He's got great wins, great accomplishments, and overall career longevity, but no on top dominance to put him in a Tier 1 category of MMA fighters.

Like I said I've always counted their 1st meeting as the bout to decide the #1 MW at the time. They were both mostly known as 183/185ers and they both weighed in the 190s which is less than most MWs fight at today on fight night. That would make him the #1 MW from 2003 - 2006 which is when Anderson became #1 and he lost to Misaki.

Looking at it the only reason he wasnt #1 for long in any particular division "officially" is because he fought in so many different divisions. The inactivity in any particular division would knock him out of the rankings.

If anyone thinks that not being #1 for long at a particular division because they move around makes a fighter not an all time great despite being so successful in multiple divisions then by that same standar Topuria is not an all time great FW or LW. Neither is McGregor.

 

[fedorthegoat777]

Dan Henderson is the most under rated competitor in mma history.

I disagree with this statement.
I think 90%+ of all fans have Dan Henderson in their top 10 GOAT fighter list. He certainly deserves a spot. Impressive wins for sure. Fedor was slipping when he caught him and Dan was gifted some decisions and has some losses. So most people don't put him as #1.

Legend, stud, warrior. One of the best ever.

 

[TeenageMutantLesnarTurtle]

Not sure i'd go as far as saying he had a more impressive career than Jon or GSP, but yeah, all things considered theres an argument to be made for placing him like top 15-20 all time p4p.

 

[Olir]

Dude was a self-confirmed TRT cheat in his UFC era and was 'decision Dan' before that, gifted an unusually massive haul of split decisions.

He also loved a cheapshot.

 

[Ludwig von Mises]

He kept Fedor fans awake at night after that KO.

Its damn true

 

[mraa1]

Why include GSP in this lol.


Dan deserves and gets mad respect and love...anyone who says otherwise (ive never heard anyone say anything) is just dumb...

Dan Henderson was the fucking man... And stopped Fedor...

His loses came because he pushed himself so hard...

This thread could easily been made with no issues without the GSP inclusion lol

It's fine, he wasn't being disrespectful, just wanted to illustrate how easily Dan could have made 170

 

[Spam On Rye]

I like the 1st fight better!

I haven't rewatched the 1st one in many years. Ill have to rectify that asap. Just remember Wand being on top alot and thinking he was too big for Hendo to handle. The 2nd one sticks in my memory because they hurt each other multiple times and were just throwing down in the center during the finish. Fuck, I miss Pride.

 

[DougieJones]

I don't think I personally have Dan in my all-time top-10, but who has a problem with respecting him as one of the greats of the sport?

 

[NoStoneUnturned]

Hendo is one those dudes who is really hard to categorize. Undersized, really good wins, tough losses, Olympic team member in Greco (but didn't medal), and just really didn't seem to give a damn about weight classes or who he was fighting. The man fought DC when he was 44 years old and I think he thought he had a chance. His confidence was seemingly endless. Zero fucks. Bonus points for being called an asshole by Don Frye.

Timestamp: 3 minutes and 25 seconds.

 

[orca]

GSP is the WW GOAT and IMO far more impressive than JBJ. He is brought up because he is of comparable size to Hendo

how is he far impressive?
i remember back then silva was more impressive than gsp

is it really fair when you have memes getting ko'd tapped to strikes
has loses

but still surpasses guys that have superior resume and more title defences than you?

 

[arcadeperfect]

Khabib didn't even challenge himself that much in his weight class. He won the belt against a guy who probably wasn't even Top 5. Then he beat 3 strikers with questionable TDD/submission defense or both. He didn't even break the LW title defense record. He was tied with BJ, Frankie and Bendo when he retired.

You have to break records in your weight class AND fight an assortment of good opponents with various styles to be in the GOAT conversation.

Khabib won the belt off the #11 ranked fighter at the time.

 

[r-harper-1]

Impressive resume for a guy that can barely turn his head. Stud.

Still feel Shogun got robbed in there against him.
Also Anderson running through Henderson is an underrated win. Andy back then still having that granite chin, eating H bombs for breakfast.

There is no possible way to score Hendo - Shogun for Shogun ….ive watched it at least half dozen times and would love to score it for shogun ….if you give shogun a 10-8 rd in rd 5 ….you gotta Give Hendo a 10-8 when he almost ko’d shogun multiple times

 

[r-harper-1]

Hendo is a LEGEND

 

[mkt]

Khabib won the belt off the #11 ranked fighter at the time.

The part-time realtor who lost to a washed/chinless Cerrone a year later. Iaquinta was actually the last fight that Cerrone won.

 

[Trabaho]

This is common knowledge for +30 people. One of the greats of MMA

 

[arcadeperfect]

Like I said I've always counted their 1st meeting as the bout to decide the #1 MW at the time. They were both mostly known as 183/185ers and they both weighed in the 190s which is less than most MWs fight at today on fight night. That would make him the #1 MW from 2003 - 2006 which is when Anderson became #1 and he lost to Misaki.

Looking at it the only reason he wasnt #1 for long in any particular division "officially" is because he fought in so many different divisions. The inactivity in any particular division would knock him out of the rankings.

If anyone thinks that not being #1 for long at a particular division because they move around makes a fighter not an all time great despite being so successful in multiple divisions then by that same standar Topuria is not an all time great FW or LW. Neither is McGregor.

Winning the PRIDE belt in each division should've made him #1 for that time period. UFC could go kick rocks during that era.

 

[Typrune Goatley]

I get they you’re a big Dan Henderson fan, but losses do matter because they are interconnected with wins. You talk about Henderson impressive wins. But someone had to be in the losing end of those fights to give meaning those wins. So in a way, Henderson’s losses should mean something if we are using the same standards.

Yes, but when you have as many fights as Hendo does and against arguably the greatest opponent list in MMA history, you're going to have several losses.

Maybe if he stayed in his weight class and cherry picked his way through his career he would have less losses and that would please you? But that's impossible because then he would have less big wins. And that's what makes Hendo so great. He has one of the greatest list of wins of any fighter. He also has arguably the greatest list of opposition, regardless of win or loss. He took on all challenges, some were gigantic tasks and most of the time it paid off. GSP, Jones and Khabib would have more losses if they took on the challenges that Hendo took.

 

[Typrune Goatley]

I threw on Rampage/Hendo the other day. Arguably both guys are at their peak. Such a well rounded 5 round display of mma. Hendo held his own and Rampage was a massive LHW against Dan who made 185 a few months later (although those were probably his worst weight cuts to 185)

One of the absolute greatest title fights in MMA history and both Rampage and Hendo seemed to hit the peak in their career where their physical prime lined up with technique and ability.

I would say the biggest 205 pound title fights ever where both guys were in their absolute primes would be:

Wanderlei vs Rampage 2
Rampage vs Hendo
Jon Jones vs Daniel Cormier

Shogun vs Machida 1 was as high level of skill we have ever seen but we know for a fact Shogun had a lot of major injuries and surgeries around this time so he was obviously not at his absolute peak like the 3 other big fights I listed above.

Also big shout out to Randy/Chuck (high skill levels) but I can't confidently say they were at their absolute peak in any of their fights.

I might be forgetting some other good ones.

 

[Typrune Goatley]

I'd probably rank Hendo in the 2nd tier of 'greats', alongside other underrated guys like Big Nog who had his own impressive list of wins, but who unfortunately lived in the era of Fedor or else might have been the top HW in the world for a number of years.

2nd tier? Hendo and Nog have better resumes than supposed "GOATs" of other divisions. Why does everyone rank the supposed divisional GOATs above everyone else? Is it not possible that say the 2nd best Heavyweight of all time has a more impressive resume/career than the supposed #1 GOAT of bantamweight? Possibly also better than the GOATs of Flyweight, Light Heavyweight, Lightweight, Welterweight? Nog's resume can compete with anyone.

Hendo gets shafted in all time P4P GOAT talk because he didn't stick to one division. Everyone always ranks Fedor, Jones, Anderson, GSP, Aldo, DJ first. I understand that but I think Hendo absolutely belongs in the 5 to 10 range. Hendo and Nog absolutely had more impressive careers than Dominick Cruz at the very least.

 

[Ibm]

GSP is far from 5'11