Hendo: Why win/loss is not everything

[Uber_Noober]

My son’s old bjj instructor was down at Hendo’s gym one day, he rolled with him. I asked how it went, he said Dan was incredibly strong, like shocked him. He was on top of Dan, while on his side on the bottom, he said Dan with one arm just pushed him right off of him.
True story

 

[fzoid4454]

Why include GSP in this lol.


Dan deserves and gets mad respect and love...anyone who says otherwise (ive never heard anyone say anything) is just dumb...

Dan Henderson was the fucking man... And stopped Fedor...

His loses came because he pushed himself so hard...

This thread could easily been made with no issues without the GSP inclusion lol

It was a size comparison, and then a competitive weight class comparison, to illustrate Hendo's size vs his competitive weight class. It made sense and was illustrative.

 

[CombatCyborg]

I honestly consider these guys like Hendo, Couture, and BJ who have a lot of losses but moved around in weight classes to have better legacies than Khabib.

 

[volcom5]

Henderson and Big Nog resumes are far better than Fedors, Wanderleis and CroCops. Shogun and Rampages are the closest in terms of competition.

I admire Henderson and a Big Nog infinitely more as fighters than the Fedors.

 

[markg171]

Dan's a weird case of having a ton of great wins, especially due to his longevity, but never really being close to being the best at the times he was competing. Being #1 matters in all time rankings. You can't be the best of all time while never being the best during YOUR time. Ironically had he gotten that final decision against Bisping he'd have had a huge boost as he'd finally have had it, and crazily at like 46, even if most people would probably say neither Hendo nor Bisping were the best MWs even if ranked #1.

So because of that I struggle to rank him all time. Like for sure I'm putting him in the top 30ish from all his wins, his titles, and being so close to 1, but beyond that I really can't justify him in some of the rankings I see when no one would ever say he was actually #1 at any point. People say he's top 10 and I just don't see it.

Randy's the far more underrated guy where it seems people don't properly rank him and should be swapped with Hendo when people try and say Hendo might've been top 10.

 

[italiamusica]

I honestly consider these guys like Hendo, Couture, and BJ who have a lot of losses but moved around in weight classes to have better legacies than Khabib.

Yeah I think a lot of people forget/don't know that BJ fought huge ass Machida, he was willing to fight anyone.

I feel like a lot of this type of mindset has leeched it's way into everything, in different ways:

Fighting: MMA, Boxing, Kickboxing, whatever, it's like you have to be undefeated with no losses to not be considered washed up and a loser. People act like losses means a fighter is dogshit when it just shows that it can be anyone's night and that anyone can lose at anytime.

Music: People act like music has to sound as CRYSTAL CLEAR and pristine as possible, with zero mistakes, played to a click and recorded to a grid, samples on every instrument, so it sounds as fake as possible. No one lets music breathe anymore, fuzziness to make it sound real, drums that sound real and aren't programmed, real instruments with flubs and random mistakes in it that add to the realness of the music. Perfect doesn't mean good, it makes it sound sterile and weird.

I had more thoughts in my head but forgot as I was typing this out lol, but people need to chill on perfection.

 

[BowserJr]

could have made this thread without a single mention of GSP the comparison is trash. lol

GSP is the WW GOAT and IMO far more impressive than JBJ. He is brought up because he is of comparable size to Hendo

 

[BarbellzNbacon]

Any weight, any time

 

[FlowchartRog]

I agree.

I don't understand why Dan is so overlooked/underrated.

 

[CerebralKnievel]

Never a fan of Decision Dan because of all the bullshit decisions he won.

I hope that some day you can overcome the bitterness of your meaningless life.

 

[FlowchartRog]

GSP is the WW GOAT and IMO far more impressive than JBJ. He is brought up because he is of comparable size to Hendo

GSP is 5'10 not 5'11 as you said, but yeah, overall I agree. Hendo is not significantly bigger.

The crazy thing is, GSP isn't even much bigger than Kebab.

 

[BowserJr]

Dan's a weird case of having a ton of great wins, especially due to his longevity, but never really being close to being the best at the times he was competing. Being #1 matters in all time rankings. You can't be the best of all time while never being the best during YOUR time. Ironically had he gotten that final decision against Bisping he'd have had a huge boost as he'd finally have had it, and crazily at like 46, even if most people would probably say neither Hendo nor Bisping were the best MWs even if ranked #1.

So because of that I struggle to rank him all time. Like for sure I'm putting him in the top 30ish from all his wins, his titles, and being so close to 1, but beyond that I really can't justify him in some of the rankings I see when no one would ever say he was actually #1 at any point. People say he's top 10 and I just don't see it.

Randy's the far more underrated guy where it seems people don't properly rank him and should be swapped with Hendo when people try and say Hendo might've been top 10.

Um he was the undisputed #1 MW for a while.

It was a toss up of him and Busta and then Busta went to Pride. Their 1st match was at LHW so you could say that doesn't count. IMO it does. 2nd match was for the belt. Literally uniting the 183/185 pride/ufc belts.

He lost a bit after that at MW in a somewhat stupid rematch with someone he had starched.

Lindland became #1 MW while bouncing promos before Silva became the head and shoulders #1 guy.

In short Hendo was the undeniable #1 185er for a while.

 

[BowserJr]

Yeah I think a lot of people forget/don't know that BJ fought huge ass Machida, he was willing to fight anyone.

I feel like a lot of this type of mindset has leeched it's way into everything, in different ways:

Fighting: MMA, Boxing, Kickboxing, whatever, it's like you have to be undefeated with no losses to not be considered washed up and a loser. People act like losses means a fighter is dogshit when it just shows that it can be anyone's night and that anyone can lose at anytime.

Music: People act like music has to sound as CRYSTAL CLEAR and pristine as possible, with zero mistakes, played to a click and recorded to a grid, samples on every instrument, so it sounds as fake as possible. No one lets music breathe anymore, fuzziness to make it sound real, drums that sound real and aren't programmed, real instruments with flubs and random mistakes in it that add to the realness of the music. Perfect doesn't mean good, it makes it sound sterile and weird.

I had more thoughts in my head but forgot as I was typing this out lol, but people need to chill on perfection.

Absolutely!

 

[BowserJr]

I get they you’re a big Dan Henderson fan, but losses do matter because they are interconnected with wins. You talk about Henderson impressive wins. But someone had to be in the losing end of those fights to give meaning those wins. So in a way, Henderson’s losses should mean something if we are using the same standards.

The gtrater point is that context matters. The context for some of the losses make them less meaningful. Also as someone else said he had some dubious decision wins which are a bit of a knock on him but when you look at the full context of his career and size, his career is far more impressive than many on the GOAT list

 

[BowserJr]

Hendo will always be in my top 10. He was the first guy to put out Fedor and I will never forget the second Axe Murderer fight. Legend.

I like the 1st fight better!

 

[BowserJr]

Impressive resume for a guy that can barely turn his head. Stud.

Still feel Shogun got robbed in there against him.
Also Anderson running through Henderson is an underrated win. Andy back then still having that granite chin, eating H bombs for breakfast.

100% agreed on both counts

 

[BowserJr]

I threw on Rampage/Hendo the other day. Arguably both guys are at their peak. Such a well rounded 5 round display of mma. Hendo held his own and Rampage was a massive LHW against Dan who made 185 a few months later (although those were probably his worst weight cuts to 185)

Super underrated fight. I was on the edge of my seat the whole time

 

[markg171]

Um he was the undisputed #1 MW for a while.

It was a toss up of him and Busta and then Busta went to Pride. Their 1st match was at LHW so you could say that doesn't count. IMO it does. 2nd match was for the belt. Literally uniting the 183/185 pride/ufc belts.

He lost a bit after that at MW in a somewhat stupid rematch with someone he had starched.

Lindland became #1 MW while bouncing promos before Silva became the head and shoulders #1 guy.

In short Hendo was the undeniable #1 185er for a while.

Your "awhile" definition seems to be like 5 months. If even that. Franklin was the UFC's MW champion at the time and many think he was robbed when they fought 3 years later, and obviously Anderson becomes MW champ in 2006 too.

Hendo's a legend, but I don't think he qualifies as an all time great unless it's an all time greatest 2nd placer. He's got great wins, great accomplishments, and overall career longevity, but no on top dominance to put him in a Tier 1 category of MMA fighters.

 

[mkt]

My son’s old bjj instructor was down at Hendo’s gym one day, he rolled with him. I asked how it went, he said Dan was incredibly strong, like shocked him. He was on top of Dan, while on his side on the bottom, he said Dan with one arm just pushed him right off of him.
True story

Frank Shamrock said Hendo was the strongest guy he ever trained with.

 

[Prazeres]

If you want to compare GSP to Hendo, then you have to bring up that GSP won against Jake Shield after he beat Hendo.