Hendo: Why win/loss is not everything

usernamee said:
Unpopular opinion but if you wanna watch some real fighters like back in the day watch BKFC. You HAVE to be a fighter through and through to do that shit. The ones who aren't wont sign up for it or if they do they only last one or a couple of fights.
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I throw on BK from time to time especially when its a name I like. MVP vs Perry was fucking legendary
 
Yeah he was very undersized, comically so in some of his matchups, like against Big Nog. He fought as low as 176 in his career. Not a big guy at all. The openweight RINGS tournament he won with 32 guys, many of them very big names, he won when he weighed just 198. Most of the guys he fought were like 230-235.
 
HOLA said:
Yeah he was very undersized, comically so in some of his matchups, like against Big Nog. He fought as low as 176 in his career. Not a big guy at all. The openweight RINGS tournament he won with 32 guys, many of them very big names, he won when he weighed just 198. Most of the guys he fought were like 230-235.
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I threw on Rampage/Hendo the other day. Arguably both guys are at their peak. Such a well rounded 5 round display of mma. Hendo held his own and Rampage was a massive LHW against Dan who made 185 a few months later (although those were probably his worst weight cuts to 185)
 
Rampage_Jackson said:
I threw on Rampage/Hendo the other day. Arguably both guys are at their peak. Such a well rounded 5 round display of mma. Hendo held his own and Rampage was a massive LHW against Dan who made 185 a few months later (although those were probably his worst weight cuts to 185)
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Yeah, that was a very close, fun fight, with a great mix of striking and grappling.
 
Bowel-forged Stool said:
That was before the development of the H-bomb.

Can someone please photoshop Einstein hair on hendo?!?
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9vskrz.jpg
 
Dan Henderson is the most under rated competitor in mma history
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Without his TRT resurgence, he was slated to go down as the most overrated fighter in MMA history. A list of several bullshit split decision wins and pretty embarrassing losses.
 
Pancake Sprawl said:
i think anyone who has won 1 night tournaments, let alone multiple are better than guys who've never even participated in one. it takes a different breed to fight and beat multiple guys in a single night.
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100% On top of that they didnt make jack. Double edge sword as a fan in that it was much purer then -pure glory with everything on the line, but man that takes it toll on their bodies,
 
Kwic said:
Impressive resume for a guy that can barely turn his head. Stud.

Still feel Shogun got robbed in there against him.
Also Anderson running through Henderson is an underrated win. Andy back then still having that granite chin, eating H bombs for breakfast.
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Yep. And that was after prime Rampage went life-and-death with Hendo for 5 rounds. Andy made it look easy less than a year later.
 
True. Almost all the 90s UFC fighters have win-loss records that aren't impressive compared to modern fighters because
  • They were thrown right into tournaments or tough fights immediately. No building up your career and padding your resume in small orgs then major org prelim cards before facing Top 10 guys.
  • They fought until they were old in a sport that was rapidly evolving.
 
Rampage_Jackson said:
Those guys were real fighters. Most of the guys today are athletes in a combat sport but very few I would really call fighters. Maybe like 25% of the roster
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Yep. Look at Anthony Smith struggling to fight a 180-pound home intruder. While less evolved, I guarantee a 1995 version of Tank or Gary Goodridge would've maimed or killed that guy. They fought with primal instincts back then. Today you have a lot of point fighters who overthink and rarely go for the kill shot.
 
lowlife said:
In terms of personal opinion, I put Hendo over guys like Khabib that never challenged themselves outside of their weight class. Having no losses is super impressive, challenging yourself time and time again against the best in the world at various weight classes clears his little undefeated streak, imo.
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Khabib didn't even challenge himself that much in his weight class. He won the belt against a guy who probably wasn't even Top 5. Then he beat 3 strikers with questionable TDD/submission defense or both. He didn't even break the LW title defense record. He was tied with BJ, Frankie and Bendo when he retired.

You have to break records in your weight class AND fight an assortment of good opponents with various styles to be in the GOAT conversation.
 
mkt said:
Yep. And that was after prime Rampage went life-and-death with Hendo for 5 rounds. Andy made it look easy less than a year later.
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Hendos got some little hands. Heard they were like gnarled roots looking like in person. Still could develop the Wrestlers Wallop with it tho

Edit:sorry replied wrong guy
 
BowserJr said:
Dan Henderson is the most under rated competitor in mma history.. The man was the size of a welterweight and has wins over some of the greatest heavyeight, light heavyweights and middleweights of all time. I’ll compare him to the 170 Great, GSP.

Some interesting numbers GSP vs Dan Henderson

Dan Henderson is 5'11
GSP is 5'11

Dan Henderson has a 71 inch reach
GSP has 76 inch reach

Hendos fight night weight at 205 has been under 200lbs many times, he was 199lbs when he faced DC. GSPs fight night weight at 170 has been at least 194 (Firas said GSP was 194 4 days before the shields fight, most likely he was bigger on fight night)

So basically you have two guys who are about the same size and one fought at 170 (no hate he should fight at 170) and the other fought at 175, 185, 205 and 265.

Pretty incredible that Dan has had the success he has had having top ten wins from 185 all the way to heavyweight!

Brazil open tournament champion (175lbs)

UFC middleweight tournament champion (under 200lbs)

Rings Openweight 32 man tournament champion (open weight)

Pride welterweight Grand Prix champion (183lbs)

Pride middleweight chanpion (205lbs)

Pride welterweight champion (183lbs)

Strikeforce 205lbs champion.

Sure Dan lost a bunch of times but he also fought more legends and top 10s than anyone while having the best win/loss ratio of anyone with that many fights and fights vs all time greats

Dan has wins over
Fedor - Pride champion
Big Nog pride/ufc/rings champ
Newton ufc champ
Babalu x2 strikeforce champ
Bustamante x2 ufc champ
Misaki pride GP champ
Belfort ufc champ
Wanderlei Silva pride champ
Rich Franklin ufc champ
Rousimar Palhares wsof champ
Bisping ufc champ
Feijao strikeforce champ
Shogun x2 ufc/pride champ
Lombard bellator champ
Ninja Rua Elitexc champ
Renzo Gracie
Allan Goes
Gilbert Yvel- vale tido/M1/rings champ
Kazuhiro Nakamura
Yuki Kondo- Pancrase champ

Good luck finding someone with a better or more extensive win list than Dan Henderson. You definitely won't find someone else with that kind of a win list at (3) multiple weight classes, much less for a guy that was on the smaller side for all the weight classes he competed in.

His career is far more impressive than Jones, Khabib, or GSP.
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And Silva and Fedor. His career is far more impressive than theirs
 
BowserJr said:
Dan Henderson is the most under rated competitor in mma history.. The man was the size of a welterweight and has wins over some of the greatest heavyeight, light heavyweights and middleweights of all time. I’ll compare him to the 170 Great, GSP.

Some interesting numbers GSP vs Dan Henderson

Dan Henderson is 5'11
GSP is 5'11

Dan Henderson has a 71 inch reach
GSP has 76 inch reach

Hendos fight night weight at 205 has been under 200lbs many times, he was 199lbs when he faced DC. GSPs fight night weight at 170 has been at least 194 (Firas said GSP was 194 4 days before the shields fight, most likely he was bigger on fight night)

So basically you have two guys who are about the same size and one fought at 170 (no hate he should fight at 170) and the other fought at 175, 185, 205 and 265.

Pretty incredible that Dan has had the success he has had having top ten wins from 185 all the way to heavyweight!

Brazil open tournament champion (175lbs)

UFC middleweight tournament champion (under 200lbs)

Rings Openweight 32 man tournament champion (open weight)

Pride welterweight Grand Prix champion (183lbs)

Pride middleweight chanpion (205lbs)

Pride welterweight champion (183lbs)

Strikeforce 205lbs champion.

Sure Dan lost a bunch of times but he also fought more legends and top 10s than anyone while having the best win/loss ratio of anyone with that many fights and fights vs all time greats

Dan has wins over
Fedor - Pride champion
Big Nog pride/ufc/rings champ
Newton ufc champ
Babalu x2 strikeforce champ
Bustamante x2 ufc champ
Misaki pride GP champ
Belfort ufc champ
Wanderlei Silva pride champ
Rich Franklin ufc champ
Rousimar Palhares wsof champ
Bisping ufc champ
Feijao strikeforce champ
Shogun x2 ufc/pride champ
Lombard bellator champ
Ninja Rua Elitexc champ
Renzo Gracie
Allan Goes
Gilbert Yvel- vale tido/M1/rings champ
Kazuhiro Nakamura
Yuki Kondo- Pancrase champ

Good luck finding someone with a better or more extensive win list than Dan Henderson. You definitely won't find someone else with that kind of a win list at (3) multiple weight classes, much less for a guy that was on the smaller side for all the weight classes he competed in.

His career is far more impressive than Jones, Khabib, or GSP.
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Not to nitpick, because this should just be about Hendo's impressive career (still not as impressive as GSP's), but I think it would be more accurate to say that Hendo in his lighter days and GSP in his heavier would approach each other.

There used to be an old video of GSP stepping on a scale backstage the night of a fight...I believe it was for the 2nd Koscheck fight and he weighted 187.5. Danaher once stated that GSP's weight come fight time was 189. Firas' quote before the Shields fight: "Georges has been getting better at cutting weight. He’s walking around at 194. There was a time when he used to walk around at 180 to make 170. He cuts weight so easily we added more muscle...he’ll enter the ring at 192 or 193 pounds". Firas and GSP at least toyed with the idea of a drop down to LW at one point. Does anyone imagine Dan regularly competing at 170, never mind even contemplating a cut down to 155? Nah...he was busy hitting 204.5 for Feijao and 207 for Fedor.

In any case...I agree with the poster who said this thread about Hendo being underrated could easily have been made without the comparison to GSP (or Jones, Silva, etc). Of course calibre of competition is key factor in evaluating greatness...but things like title defenses, divisional dominance, and won-loss records matter too...collectively, they are what separates 'GOAT' from 'great'.

I'd probably rank Hendo in the 2nd tier of 'greats', alongside other underrated guys like Big Nog who had his own impressive list of wins, but who unfortunately lived in the era of Fedor or else might have been the top HW in the world for a number of years.
 
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