Help with True Protein mix

[matador1872]

After lugging around about 4 jugs of crap in my bag I have decided to follow everyone's advice and custom order a mix. Want something for Post Workout

I was looking at
30% Malto
30% Dextro
30% Protein ( Which Whey should I use?)
5% BCAA's
5% EAA's


Do the %s look right on carb/ protein?
Which Protein?
Do I need the EAA's?
Flavor? I like the Artic Blast in Cell Mass. Do they have anyting close?
Any additives?

 

[JoelThomas]

Try WMS instead of malto and dextro. Spring for the peptopro if you can afford it. You need something that is fast acting, else you're pretty much negating the desired effect of the carbs. You'll hear different percentages from everyone, hovering right around what you've already got. Not sure of the efficacy of the EAA's. I hear the best flavors to get are citrusy, and only in premium. I got the old fashioned lemonade. It's not awful, but the taste is definitely closer to the edible line than the enjoyable one. I mix it with some fruit punch creatine and blend with ice. It doesn't kill me.

 

[matador1872]

WMS? Waxy Maize Starch, correct?

 

[fat_wilhelm]

Yes, WMS = waxy maize starch. If you can afford Pepto-Pro, then go for it. Otherwise, use a hydrolyzed whey. Flavor is personal pref... I like orange creamsicle.

 

[matador1872]

Thanks. What's your opinion on the BCAAs and EAA's

 

[Loomy]

Leave out the EAAs. The whole point of adding free amino acids is to boost the leucine and its supporting AAs. And even then we don't know for sure if this does SQUAT compared to just straight protein.

Microfiltered / cold microfiltered whey is the whey to use. TP people usually recommend the cold microfiltered because it is basically the same thing for a little less money. I think they are just produced by different companies under marginally different processes.

If this is your immediate post workout drink (see http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showpost.php?p=11356062&postcount=3088 ) and if you want to be frisky, I would consider 10% BCAA, 10% peptopro, 30% CF whey, and whatever carbs you like.

For carbs I personally do fructose:dextrose 1:1 (the same breakdown as table sugar, sucrose, partly because it is a natural mixture, and partly because we know/suspect that one helps the absorption of the other and vice versa) for as much as is needed to flavor it, and then maltodextrin for the rest. There is next-to-no science behind saying one simple carb is better than another post workout. That is why I don't use corn starch -- that shit tastes like ... corn starch.

 

[Monger]

There is next-to-no science behind saying one simple carb is better than another post workout.

That's not true at all. A glucose polymer is vastly superior to fructose.
http://www.sherdog.net/forums/showthread.php?t=626454&highlight=sucrose+glycogen

And fructose in high quantities is never good for you. It's one of the leading causes of obesity and diabetes. There's nothing wrong with the small amounts in fruit but purposely adding fructose to a diet is not wise unless you've just ran a marathon and actually require glycogen replenishment in the liver. Most workouts and sports won't require that.
http://www.nutritionand****bolism.com/content/2/1/5#IDAQ3KFC

 

[DPS831]

so is it a general consensus that WMS is superior to malto/dextro?

 

[Monger]

so is it a general consensus that WMS is superior to malto/dextro?

I believe it's been shown to be slightly faster digesting than malto/dex but that doesn't necessarily mean its superior. Malt/dex already shows peak glucose levels in the blood roughly 15mins after consumption. Is anyone really going to benefit from this happening in 10mins vs. 15mins? No, I don't think so.

WMS is great for people that have stomach issues with large amounts of malt/dex but for everyone else I just recommend that they stick to malt/dex. It taste better, mixes better, and is cheaper.

Fatty says that WMS helps him with avoiding crashes after his old drink of malt/dex. If that's an issue, you can also give WMS a try (although I'm still baffled as to why it would make a difference :icon_chee).

 

[fat_wilhelm]

(although I'm still baffled as to why it would make a difference :icon_chee).

As am I, but I swear it's the case. I used to crash so bad on dex/malto, I could barely stand up. No crash whatsoever w/ WMS. The blood glucose levels vs. time graphs look practically identical, so it's a mystery to me, as well, but this is one case where it's definitely not placebo. I could set my watch by the sugar crash w/ my dex/malto version.

 

[Loomy]

That's not true at all. A glucose polymer is vastly superior to fructose.
http://www.sherdog.net/forums/showthread.php?t=626454&highlight=sucrose+glycogen

Well you got me there. I should have said one might not be much better than a combination. We know glucose and fructose combined are probably better than all of either due to different paths of absorption and ****bolism. And a study you linked says glucose polymer (probably maltodextrin?) is better than all of either as well. Maybe another study will compare more combinations of all three?

In any case I think my suggestion of 1:11-3) fructose:glucose:maltodextrin (as much fructose:glucose as needed for flavor, then the rest as maltodextrin) remains a good idea.

 

[Monger]

Well you got me there. I should have said one might not be much better than a combination. We know glucose and fructose combined are probably better than all of either due to different paths of absorption and ****bolism. And a study you linked says glucose polymer (probably maltodextrin?) is better than all of either as well. Maybe another study will compare more combinations of all three?

In any case I think my suggestion of 1:11-3) fructose:glucose:maltodextrin (as much fructose:glucose as needed for flavor, then the rest as maltodextrin) remains a good idea.

To be honest, I'm still trying to learn about some of the specifics on that stuff. It does appear that 10g's of fructose or less can have beneficial effects in combination with a glucose polymer. I just wouldn't include more than that. How much do those ratio's yield in grams per serving for you?

 

[joshetc]

I wouldn't get 5% EAAs. Go with 10% BCAA. EAAs are expensive, not as useful for muscle gain as BCAAs, and you get quite a bit of them already from your high protein diet.

My next mix is going to be 15% WPI and 15% hydrolyzed whey, in an attempt to have an effecient as well as good tasting mixture.

 

[theNuge]

My next mix is going to be 15% WPI and 15% hydrolyzed whey, in an attempt to have an effecient as well as good tasting mixture.

I've always been happy with my 30% hydro whey mixture as far as taste goes. You don't like it? What flavor have you been getting?

 

[Connors]

70% WMS
15% BCAA
5% Glutamine
5% EAA
5% Taurine



Sample mix that worked well for me.

Take a protein shake about 25 minutes after the WMS shake.

 

[Loomy]

It does appear that 10g's of fructose or less can have beneficial effects in combination with a glucose polymer. I just wouldn't include more than that. How much do those ratio's yield in grams per serving for you?

I roughly follow alan aragon's recommendations ( http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showpost.php?p=11356062&postcount=3088 ) of 1:1 protein:carbs most of the time except right after the workout. I also follow the idea that we can only deal with around 40g of protein max every two hours. That means 2 pre-meals and 2 post-meals and some water/gatorade/accelerade/whatever during the workout.

In each of those meals I'd do 10-15g of 1:1:1 or 1:1:2 glucose:fructose:maltodextrin. I haven't pinned down exact numbers yet, and I don't know if I need to because I can just play it by taste and instinct as long as I am in the ballpark. This probably means around 10g fructose in the two meals of the first hour, and <15g in the two meals of the second hour.

And of course all this can change as I learn more

 

[joshetc]

I've always been happy with my 30% hydro whey mixture as far as taste goes. You don't like it? What flavor have you been getting?

BSL chocolate. I'm really picky, I heard citrus flavors are more forgiving with bitter products, though. When I can afford it I'll try a 30% hydro mixture with orange creamsicle.

 

[Baconator69**]

true protien

 

[Baconator69**]

sorry meant to type in teh search function bar.

 

[dropshot001]

something else to consider other than using wms would be potato starch. i used to get a lot of bloating from wms but don't have any of that with potato starch. no insulin crash after using either for me.