Heat Pump vs AC

[Bornstarch]

You're looking at about 10k total

 

[Joshuaace]

You're looking at about 10k total

If I can get a name brand HP integrated in with my current propane furnace that has a SEER of 18+ and and HSPF of 9+, with a 10 year warranty for 10k. Sign me up.

 

[Bornstarch]

If I can get a name brand HP integrated in with my current propane furnace that has a SEER of 18+ and and HSPF of 9+, with a 10 year warranty for 10k. Sign me up.

Don't even bother thinking about "warranties." They only warranty the part, not the labor and it's the labor that will fuck you. You can get a 5 ton unit for about $5k on the low end. If you're lucky, they'll charge you another $5k in labor.

That's why you go with someone who does HVAC on the side. An HVAC company will charge you $20k total.

 

[MicroBrew]

Any of You guys using a Heat Pump as primary or supplemental heat? My Central Air unit was installed in 2000. In May of 2020, it was serviced with almost 4lbs of R-22 plus an hour of labor for about $450. AC is blowing warm again, it's probably time to replace the whole unit.

So my Sherbro's with some appliance knowledge. Does a heat pump justify the added expense? Is it a feasible heat source for Central Il? Ideally I would have it integrated with our current propane furnace to reduce actual dependance on propane, while allowing the flexibility to still use it when it's cost effective.

I'm gonna need cold air soon, so it's time to do something, whether it be fill refrigerant, change AC, or switch to Heat pump. I know we got Sherbro's in the trades, drop some knowledge on me.

We got a carrier A.C. unit that has never been serviced since it was installed new in 2018, but it blows cold air and works just fine.

 

[Bornstarch]

Never have people "service" your A/C. All you have to do is replace your filters and wash out your condenser coils every few years or so. People will come to your house and break shit on purpose so you have to buy a new unit.

They're not there to help you. They're there to make as much money as possible.

 

[Joshuaace]

Don't even bother thinking about "warranties." They only warranty the part, not the labor and it's the labor that will fuck you. You can get a 5 ton unit for about $5k on the low end. If you're lucky, they'll charge you another $5k in labor.

That's why you go with someone who does HVAC on the side. An HVAC company will charge you $20k total.

That's plain silliness. Of course reputable Dealers cover the labor on parts warrantied by name brand Mfr's if they install the equipment. They then get reimbursed from the MFR for the labor. The reason BillyRayBobbyJoeMichaelTom the 2nd working out of the back of his '92 Astrovan has cheap prices, is because he isn't a licensed dealer. If there is an issue, the only recourse You have is through the Courts, if You can even locate him.

 

[Joshuaace]

We got a carrier A.C. unit that has never been serviced since it was installed new in 2018, but it blows cold air and works just fine.

When I was setting up consults, I made sure to include an Authorized Dealer of Carrier. As well as Goodman, Trane, and Rheem.

 

[Bornstarch]

That's plain silliness. Of course reputable Dealers cover the labor on parts warrantied by name brand Mfr's if they install the equipment. They then get reimbursed from the MFR for the labor. The reason BillyRayBobbyJoeMichaelTom the 2nd working out of the back of his '92 Astrovan has cheap prices, is because he isn't a licensed dealer. If there is an issue, the only recourse You have is through the Courts, if You can even locate him.

Ok, go with a big company then and good luck.

 

[Joshuaace]

We got a carrier A.C. unit that has never been serviced since it was installed new in 2018, but it blows cold air and works just fine.

Carrier has taken an early lead for me. Not even because of the brand, because of the Salesman. 23yo farm kid that just graduated from the U of I. When they texted me his pic/bio (it was the only company that did this) I was skeptical based on age. He was easily the best listener, and therefore the best salesman of the 4. I basically asked each Company for 4 estimates. 1) re-charge current AC (2) Replace AC with todays equivalent (3) Replace AC with Heat pump and keep 23yo furnace (4) Replace AC with HP AND replace furnace incorporating a variable speed blower.

So far, the only one that has gotten a written estimate to my in-box is also the only company eliminated. Their Salesman quoted $450 per lb of r-22 should I charge my current AC. He said it wasn't even possible to put a different type of refrigerant in it. He E-mailed me 3 estimates labeled good $24k, better $27k, best $35k. He didn't send any model #'s for any of the proposed equipment. This is 100% the Company/Salesman that rips off your Parents/Grandparents.

The Trane Dealer would not spitball any estimates. He did say his estimate would be thorough and detailed, and that He does the legwork to find the rebates/tax credits that are there for the equipment we are putting in. The Lennox guy was 400-500 for a re-charge. 8k for a Lennox AC (6k for a lennox made off brand). 14K for a lennox integrated hp with a new furnace (11k-12k for the lennox b model). The 23yo farm kid from Carrier convinced Me with a look that I wasn't sticking another $500 Band-aid on an AC his age. 6k just AC. 12k for HP, furnace, vsp blower, which was his recommended set up for my house and my needs. He said we could spend another 8-10k on bells and whistles AND he makes commision.....He also presented a couple options to save up to 2k ish in various ways. Again, those numbers were just pre estimate guesses by the 2 guys willing to make them.

May try and line up another company or 2 tomo, crunch info over the Weekend after receiving their written estimates, and sign a contract on Monday.

@Bornstarch I'm going to walk back and pick up the flag I left on the ground. Industry standard is 10 year parts/1 year labor. One of the National service companies offers 2 years labor. The locally Owned Carrier Dealer offers 3 years labor. And the Lennox Dealer matches that 3 year on Lennox underbrand(Ducane), and 5 years on Lennox. From all I'm seeing that is the exception and not the norm though, which is 10 parts, 1 labor.

 

[eighterumg5]

What part of the world are you living in that you can still get legal R22.

Anywhere. You can still buy from suppliers with a EPA licence. Just got some 2 months ago from about 1200 I think it was

 

[eighterumg5]

I looked into a heat pump when I needed a new furnace. For the life of me, I can't figure out why anyone would buy one. While they provide both heat and cool air, they don't do either one well. I would absolutely still need a furnace, and most likely still need an A/C of some sort. There's is no way I could ever recoup the cost of having one installed. I assume they're only real purpose is making HVAC companies money.

They do great until temps fall under 30-35 then you'll need supplemental heating. Some heat pumps will even go to 15 degrees. Lennox comes to mind. Mitsubishi mini splits preform great in cold temp as well. And are incredibly quiet. Seattle either wants to or has already passed a sound ordinance and so far Mitsubishi units are leading the pack.
So in a way you are correct and wrong at the same time. Nothing wrong with that

 

[Streeter]

I heat my place mostly with my fireplace in winter. I like the feeling of a real fire and saves a ton on electric bill.

 

[Richmma80]

I don't know what your obsession is with heat pumps. They fucking suck and when they break, it's thousands of dollars to fix. And your compressor runs overtime when it should be resting for the winter.

 

[gondo]

Depending on the size of your house heat pumps can be pricey to run. It’s essentially the same draw as your stove running for the majority of the day to give you an idea of power requirements. I think it depends on what’s cheaper in your area.
Gas is cheaper to heat with where I live and it’s possible to keep gas appliances running if you have a generator during power outages.

If you only need certain areas cooled and not the whole house mini splits are a decent option but you have to put up with an ugly unit mounted up high on a wall inside.

 

[Joshuaace]

I don't know what your obsession is with heat pumps. They fucking suck and when they break, it's thousands of dollars to fix. And your compressor runs overtime when it should be resting for the winter.

Thanks for sparing me the technical jargon and getting right to the important stuff like your opinion. The HP having a shorter life expectancy than an AC or Furnace is a valid point though. I think it's basically a "push" though, because when the HP compressor is running in the winter, the Furnace wont be. So the additional workload on the compressor is offset by the reduced workload on the Furnace.

 

[woodguyatl]

As a middle aged man, this is a topic I'm definitely gaining more interest in.

Have you already made the middle-aged decision whether you are going to become an expert in barbecueing or WWII?

 

[woodguyatl]

Hope you don't mind me asking, where are you located/what's your weather like? I'm 100 miles south of Chicago, so we have 4 seasons. Summer and Winter have the potential to be pretty severe here in the corn belt.

I have heat pumps in Northern Michigan and Atlanta, the modern ones work great in both places. Illinois will be just fine. You will notice that in the winter the heat pump does not blow air that is as warm as the gas furnace. It will easily still keep the house at the correct temperature.

 

[Richmma80]

Thanks for sparing me the technical jargon and getting right to the important stuff like your opinion. The HP having a shorter life expectancy than an AC or Furnace is a valid point though. I think it's basically a "push" though, because when the HP compressor is running in the winter, the Furnace wont be. So the additional workload on the compressor is offset by the reduced workload on the Furnace.

The furnace is completely separate from the condenser and evaporator, which is what makes AC units so expensive. If you have a heat pump, the most expensive part of the unit is working twice as long. A compresssor is nothing but an electric motor that has an expected life run cycle. If your average life of a compressor is 10 years, then it will only be 5 years if it has to also spin during the cold season.

If your "heat pump" goes out, your AC goes out and any AC company will charge you another $25k for a new unit.

 

[woodguyatl]

Depending on the size of your house heat pumps can be pricey to run. It’s essentially the same draw as your stove running for the majority of the day to give you an idea of power requirements. I think it depends on what’s cheaper in your area.
Gas is cheaper to heat with where I live and it’s possible to keep gas appliances running if you have a generator during power outages.

If you only need certain areas cooled and not the whole house mini splits are a decent option but you have to put up with an ugly unit mounted up high on a wall inside.

Heat pumps draw that current at full capacity. The majority of the time they are either not running or with variable speed compressors and fans, running at much less than full capacity.

 

[nonoob]

Really surprised so many people have an aversion to a heat pump.

Start with an AC, add necessary components to allow the refrigerant to travel in the opposite direction, you now have a "heat pump" - it's no longer just a "cool pump".

AC techs, from the old school, hate them IMHO because they haven't been trained to trouble shoot the reversing procedure needed for heating - it's the same flow of refrigerant, only the flow is reversed.