Crime Has the IRA been reborn?

[RockstarChris]

Thought this was a thread about saving for retirement.

if i needed someone to kill someone the first place i look is ireland

 

[Bunk Moreland]

So the same issue and feeling still exist in Northern Ireland now? And if a border is put up between NI and the UK tensions will rise, resulting in conflict? I get that right? I’ll have to go read some about this.

 

[ShinkanPo]

So who will win IRA terrorist or Muslamic Beheaders?

 

[deise69]

It has its roots very much in religion. Catholics are viewed as nationalists and Protestants are viewed as loyalists.

And what do you mean Northern Ireland is a province and that there is no country called the Republic of Ireland lol?!?!?!?

Northern Ireland= COUNTRY
Republic of Ireland= COUNTRY
The island is= IRELAND

ULSTER-MUNSTER-LEINSTER-CONNACHT are provinces.

Roots in religion but it's not about religion. It's about Identity, some see themselves as Irish, some British and some Northern Irish. Wolfe Tone, Parnell, Emmet, Casement, Childers, Constance Markieviczetc were all protestants. The INLA were led by Ronnie Bunting at one stage.

Whats NI's flag and national anthem again ? Where is it being governed from ?
The country I live in is called Ireland. You'd think you'd learn the name of your neighbouring country after all this time ??

 

[carlos cadona]

 

[Happy Man]

Irish freedom song are better

 

[BillytheFish]

Roots in religion but it's not about religion. It's about Identity, some see themselves as Irish, some British and some Northern Irish. Wolfe Tone, Parnell, Emmet, Casement, Childers, Constance Markieviczetc were all protestants. The INLA were led by Ronnie Bunting at one stage.

Whats NI's flag and national anthem again ? Where is it being governed from ?
The country I live in is called Ireland. You'd think you'd learn the name of your neighbouring country after all this time ??

Thanks for the history lesson- I am quite aware of what the conflict has been, and is over.

What has the flag status or government got to do with Northern Ireland being its own country??? Grass is green, sky is blue and Northern Ireland is its own country. You think you would know that when you cross the border? I was correcting someone on what a province and a country was- so you might want to implement a little context into your response to me.

Also amusing how you fail to see the irony from your own post...where you discuss how it is about identity yet then try to correct one particular identity lol.

EDIT- Im out of this bullshit thread since people are now posting songs from both sides. I am not a bigot- my viewpoint is there are cunts on BOTH sides.

 

[Rimbaud82]

"Northern Ireland's power-sharing government has been suspended for two years because of a dispute between the main Protestant and Catholic political parties."

So, is that like a U.S. government shutdown for 2 years? How exactly is the government running things in Northern Ireland?

...and Northern Ireland is an independent country from the Republic of Ireland correct? It is part of the United Kingdom.

Northern Ireland is currently part of the UK and has been since the Partition of Ireland in 1921 yes.

As for the government, it's basically because we are a devolved govt. within the broader UK that things are still functioning. As there is no executive at Stormont nothing can be done in terms of political changes - even as a non-important example a stadium in west belfast can't get signed off to be rebuilt because of this - new laws cannot be passed (those which are devolved to the NI executive in the first place, obviously they can within the UK as a whole). In day to day terms the civil service continues the regular running of the government.

 

[Rimbaud82]

I'm not too familiar with the conflict in Ireland, but from my superficial knowledge it seems ridiculous that it boils down to "you worship the same god as me, but in a slightly different way, so we have to kill you."

I assume the state is involved with the church which is an issue and this seems like a good example of why you don't mix religion and government.

Well you are right that your knowledge is entirely superficial, the terms Catholic and Protestant are purely ethnic identifiers which relate to the two groups, relics from the early modern period. The conflict is political and cultural with literally nothing to do with religion or the separation of church and state.

I mean for fuck sake do a bit of light reading first.

 

[BillytheFish]

I mean for fuck sake do a bit of light reading first.

hahaha....mate if people in our country cannot be bothered to learn their own history and make an informed decision on where they stand.... it is asking too much of the average sherdogger.

They are too busy being concerned with things like inhaling and exhaling... can't expect the 3rd neuron to be used for intellectual discussion

 

[Rimbaud82]

And you've already been answered @Phr3121 but no the "IRA" is not coming back, not the IRA as most people mean it...which is the Provisional IRA from the Troubles, which was a well-organised, well-supported and extremely effective organisation. That is what people typically think of when they think of the IRA. However, the Provos are not the only IRA....so in another sense the IRA is not coming back, because they never went away. Of course, that statement obviously requires a bit of historical exposition...

The original Irish Republican Army fought the militarised police force and British Army forces in the 1920s during the Irish War of Independence, they were originally known as the Irish Volunteers which was theoretically a regular army and was organised as such (in practice, they quickly changed to guerrilla tactics, some of the first examples of this in modern history during the war against the British). There was also an even older organisation called the Irish Republican Brotherhood (IRB) which dated back to the 19th century, this was a secretive oath-bound organisation which operated through attempted infiltration of other organisations and, in the 1880s, a dynamite campaign of bombing financial targets in England. The IRB and the IRA weren't the same thing, but there was overlap in the leadership. The IRB was a small, fraternal organisation which had little support by the end of the 19th century and the Volunteers/Old IRA was a huge organisation which eventually obtained mass support after the 1916 rising/1919 and the beginning of the war of independence.

After War of Independence a treaty was signed in which Ireland was declared an independent dominion (apart from the area of Northern Ireland...) within the Commonwealth, basically on par with what Canada, South Africa, Australia and New Zealand had at the time. Functionally independent but with some symbolic ties to Britain remaining (and in Ireland's case a few things like ports which would remain under British control for a time). Some though this would give Ireland a chance to eventually get total freedom (which was exactly what happened), others disagreed and wanted nothing but a fully independent republic with no symbolic ties to Britain at all...this led to the Irish Civil War. The majority of the original IRA became the official army of the new Irish Free State. Those who were Anti-Treaty became known as the "Irregulars"...they lost the civil war and were subsequently forced to become an 'underground' organisation in the decades that followed, operating much like the old IRB...little popular support, very secretive etc. They eventually became known as simply the IRA and it is from this organisation that all the modern "IRA's" are descended from.

This IRA continued to try and fight against the British forces in Northern Ireland (the so-called northern campaign in the 40s, and the border campaign in the 50s), as well as some bombs in Britain. Largely they were quite ineffectual and had very little popular support, but they kept the organisation going despite that. Over time the northern leadership of the IRA was becoming increasingly separate from the southern command (a result of the border between the Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland). At the onset of The Troubles in the late 60's, the northern IRA split into two more groups....the Official IRA or 'stickies' (who were more heavily Marxist in their outlook and wanted to avoid sectarian divisions amongst the working classes), and the Provisional IRA. The Provos would become the much larger group and it was they who undertook the majority of the armed activity during The Troubles, when people talk about the IRA nowadays they are almost always referring to the Provos. It was the discrimination faced by ordinary Catholics/Nationalists at that time in Northern Ireland, combined with the repression by the British Forces (who were initially seen as protection from violent loyalists and welcomed) and the killing of Catholic civilians which laid the grounds for mass support once again (on a scale not seen since the period of the original war of independence).

Once the The Troubles ended and the Good Friday Agreement was signed there were some within the Provisional IRA who disagreed with peace and wanted to continue the fight, known as "Dissident Republicans". As you can see this is a recurring theme within modern Irish history....but they have very low levels of popular support, and while obviously dangerous are much less sophisticated, much less well-trained and well-equipped than the provisional IRA...they go by various names - the Real IRA, the Continuity IRA, Óglaigh na hÉireann (a Real IRA splinter group) etc. These groups have membership merely number in the hundreds compared to the mass support (whether tacit or outright) of the provos. They continue to try and do things like kill policemen and security guards + explode devices but thankfully are almost always stopped by the security services.

This latest car bomb in Derry...well on an empty street clearly not the most successful attempt ever and extremely crude in comparison to Provos (who got better over time of course)....but still a bomb and if there were people on that street it would have been extremely dangerous. But, all this is to say that this is still the actions of a minority IRA splinter group....of which there have been a number over the years. The Provisional IRA were of a particular time and circumstances created by that time, things aren't going to suddenly do a 180 degree switch back to the Troubles. The vast majority want peace.

 

[Phr3121]

At the onset of The Troubles in the late 60's, the northern IRA split into two more groups....the Official IRA or 'stickies' (who were more heavily Marxist in their outlook and wanted to avoid sectarian divisions amongst the working classes), and the Provisional IRA. The Provos would become the much larger group and it was they who undertook the majority of the armed activity during The Troubles, when people talk about the IRA nowadays they are almost always referring to the Provos.

Good post (long). Good History.

Since I was young, I was always impressed with the IRA and some of their operations. Complex, well planned and executed. I think a lot of the folks were in the British military. A whole other league of terrorism from the other terrorists of the time. I would say the IRA wrote the book on how to conduct terrorist activities in urban terrain. Sure gave the British military major headaches. First world terrorism. I don't think any other First world country can claim that. Not the U.S., France, Germany, Canada, and a few others.

 

[Phr3121]

And what do you mean Northern Ireland is a province and that there is no country called the Republic of Ireland. ULSTER-MUNSTER-LEINSTER-CONNACHT are provinces.

So the same issue and feeling still exist in Northern Ireland now? And if a border is put up between NI and the UK tensions will rise, resulting in conflict? I get that right? I’ll have to go read some about this.

'BigDickRick' (what a name!), most of us here in the U.S. really don't have a clue as to the geography of the United Kingdom. Until a few years ago I myself had no idea of how things split up. Ireland is an island not connected to Great Britain. A lot of fucking history for two small islands. In Summary:

. Great Britain = England, Scotland, and Wales.
. UK = England, Scotland, Wales, and Northern Ireland.
. England = Just the part of the island that is England.

Ireland:

 

[BillytheFish]

'BigDickRick' (what a name!), most of us here in the U.S. really don't have a clue as to the geography of the United Kingdom. Until a few years ago I myself had no idea of how things split up. Ireland is an island not connected to Great Britain. A lot of fucking history for two small islands. In Summary:

. Great Britain = England, Scotland, and Wales.
. UK = England, Scotland, Wales, and Northern Ireland.
. England = Just the part of the island that is England.

Ireland:

Yup and the province of Ulster is in both Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland. So you can be from Ulster and be Northern Irish or Irish

Culturally speaking we choose our own identity- we are entitled to both British passports and/or Irish passports. We can choose to goto traditionally British schools or Irish schools etc

FYI people in the UK also decide their own 'idea' of patriotism...kind of like how Texans say they are Texan not American sometimes. English/Scottish/Welsh/Northern Irish might consider themselves of those countries as opposed to collectively British etc

 

[MicroBrew]

I'm not too familiar with the conflict in Ireland, but from my superficial knowledge it seems ridiculous that it boils down to "you worship the same god as me, but in a slightly different way, so we have to kill you."

I assume the state is involved with the church which is an issue and this seems like a good example of why you don't mix religion and government.

Not claiming to have a deep understanding of the issue.

What I have read over the years says It's an ethnic conflict more than religious.

Over the years after the Good Friday Agreement, there have been a few incidents involving the "Real IRA" but nothing that can be said to be a return to how things were before the peace talks.

 

[Phr3121]

Culturally speaking we choose our own identity- we are entitled to both British passports and/or Irish passports.

Ok. That leads to my next question, but I think you've answered it with the passport issue.

If Ireland is a separate country, what happens if a foreign power tries to invade it? It has no Army. The British military would come to the rescue. Correct?

Weird. 4 separate countries under one military. I don't think we have that anywhere else in the world.

 

[aunshi189]

Ok. That leads to my next question, but I think you've answered it with the passport issue.

If Ireland is a separate country, what happens if a foreign power tries to invade it? It has no Army. The British military would come to the rescue. Correct?

Weird. 4 separate countries under one military. I don't think we have that anywhere else in the world.

A big reason the British Isles are so strange politically and constitutionally is that a lot if it was being done for the first time. If the United Kingdom had formed after the US then it would likely be far more structured and federal.

 

[Fedorable]

fuck this North Ireland and Ireland bullshit---I am moving to South Ireland.

 

[danny23]

If The Troubles were to happen again today, then I believe Britain has good chance in giving in to them. This is because of how weak and vulnerable we are right now in every way.

This wasn't the case obviously in post-war Britain. There was a strong will to fight on both sides. The fighting went on for over 30 years.
In the end the IRA lost and gave up the fight. N.Ireland remained part of the UK.

However I doubt it'll be the same this time around. Britain's cowardly and spineless leadership along with the current populace will ensure defeat.
The IRA should be aware of this and should they play their cards right they can win this time. They just have to wait for the dust to settle for the catastrophe that is Brexit and act from there.

 

[Rematch]

If it weren't for the IRA and the violence they caused, Catholics would still not be able to vote, hold jobs in government, and would still be very much second class citizens that the British Protestants lorded over them for centuries. The British refused to make changes to the laws until the violence got so bad that the rest of the world started to see the British as the cause of the violence. This will never be settled until the British get out and their support for one side over the other is stated politically and demonstrated. With the British and their troubles with the "new deal", I believe we will see more of this in the future.

You could very well have a Rwanda-type situation. It's not like centuries of resentment will just fade away after power structure that kept one class above the other leaves the land.