Hands up during roundhouse kick. For what?

[KarateStylist]

You've obviously never taken my leg kick to the head. Master Ken taught it to me.

ouch!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Centaur]

The way Samart has his hand up makes sense to me, although granted he's still vulnerable to a straight left, the most basic and easiest counter from that position. That's why I think the timing, head/shoulder placement and quality of your kick is far more important than your hand placement as far as being countered is concerned. In my op I was more specifically talking about holding your hands up in this manner


Or this


I see literally zero benefit to holding your hands up like this. You're not defending yourself from any practical attack with that hand placement.

One of my fighters threw a right head kick and got caught with a kick on the opposite because he dropped his left hand. End of a tourney and he was tired and got caught. His next fight a year later same thing happened, but he had his hand up and his opponent didn’t and he dropped him and took the round 10-8.

You can argue about making angles and all that, and they are good points, but when someone’s fought three times in a day they’re gonna get tired and not fight as smart. Having the proper hand placement for defence engrained in them is key at
times like that.

 

[KarateStylist]

You can argue about making angles and all that, and they are good points, but when someone’s fought three times in a day they’re gonna get tired and not fight as smart. Having the proper hand placement for defence engrained in them is key at
times like that.

I believe having the hand up has utility. I would think by kick-boxing, this would be the standard.

The larger issue by karate is how one perceives the tactical situation. I've addressed this dynamic among my kumite posts.

 

[KarateStylist]

I have been taught to have hands in a slight defensive position similar to Bill Wallace in form...[link omitted]

Wise post. However, I am not so concerned with kick-boxing like guards (they do exist among TMA styles). Thread asks a good question.

Bill Wallace through my eyes was the epitome of the natural fighter. His physique & psyche just dovetailed perfectly in this mold. Base talent wise, he out-shown Chuck Norris by a mile & 1/2. Norris, however, had something more & different which spanned the gap.

One principle shown in Bill's demo is the concept of perfect technique. His form is truly amazing. What's more is he demonstrated so in actual matches, as opposed to the TKD tricking-like demonstrations which usually leaves me wondering. His movement has kinda of a kenpo flavor.

I'll leave it there.

 

[Snubnoze707]

Something I don’t see mentioned is also the fact that the hand there helps with indirect counters.
If your hand is already there it helps so you don’t have to bring it back to your face if someone is trying to kick or punch AFTER your kick.
It would take a lot longer to bring back if it’s at your waist.

You are also in position to strike with that hand after the kick lands. So many reasons to train with the hand up and tight while kicking

I literally just said that two posts before you. I agree. There's no justification to NOT keep your hand up and countless reasons on why you should.

 

[Snubnoze707]

Wise post. However, I am not so concerned with kick-boxing like guards (they do exist among TMA styles). Thread asks a good question.

Bill Wallace through my eyes was the epitome of the natural fighter. His physique & psyche just dovetailed perfectly in this mold. Base talent wise, he out-shown Chuck Norris by a mile & 1/2. Norris, however, had something more & different which spanned the gap.

One principle shown in Bill's demo is the concept of perfect technique. His form is truly amazing. What's more is he demonstrated so in actual matches, as opposed to the TKD tricking-like demonstrations which usually leaves me wondering. His movement has kinda of a kenpo flavor.

I'll leave it there.

How do you continually manage to type so much without making a single point or contribute anything to the topic?

 

[KarateStylist]

How do you continually manage to type so much without making a single point or contribute anything to the topic?

Speaking of masters @ saying nothing... guess my post relating the video & it's message wasn't for you.

 

[KarateStylist]

Oh, we have the latest technical genius...
Here's traditional karate stylist, Oliver Enkamp, who bought into the MMA kick-boxing rhetoric. Dumped karate kumite principles for MMA striking.
Highlights: Danny Roberts Sleeps Oliver Enkamp With Laser Left Hand
132 views


Hot News MMA
Published on Mar 17, 2018
Highlights: Danny Roberts Sleeps Oliver Enkamp With Laser Left Hand

Slaughtered with WHAT,? his hand up just as plugged here. Instead of taking the illustration advanced by Centaur and putting it in it's proper perspective... it's a diatribe of how xyz poster found the absolute.

Bill Wallace does X, that must be it. Like those 2 kick boxers across the pond have Bill Wallace's inherent talent, did the intensive karate training Bill Wallace did, then had all the other experience Wallace did. Wallace didn't magically beat everyone. Wallace went to boxing training. Why?

Hand up or hand down... it all has a context.

 

[FighterTwister]

Oh, we have the latest technical genius...
Here's traditional karate stylist, Oliver Enkamp, who bought into the MMA kick-boxing rhetoric. Dumped karate kumite principles for MMA striking.
Highlights: Danny Roberts Sleeps Oliver Enkamp With Laser Left Hand
132 views


Hot News MMA
Published on Mar 17, 2018
Highlights: Danny Roberts Sleeps Oliver Enkamp With Laser Left Hand

Slaughtered with WHAT,? his hand up just as plugged here. Instead of taking the illustration advanced by Centaur and putting it in it's proper perspective... it's a diatribe of how xyz poster found the absolute.

Bill Wallace does X, that must be it. Like those 2 kick boxers across the pond have Bill Wallace's inherent talent, did the intensive karate training Bill Wallace did, then had all the other experience Wallace did. Wallace didn't magically beat everyone. Wallace went to boxing training. Why?

Hand up or hand down... it all has a context.

From a TMA background its clear, doubly clear they will not lean towards fundamentals of original fighting teachings anymore.

You know I tried here..... https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/martial-arts-hiddentruth-in-mysticism-and-legends.3973543/

They are exploring new founded methods and approaches to suit culture of MIXED MARTIAL ARTS its frustrating I know but that is how they all see it now.

Also this is still on topic in thread because question is asked why ........Hands up during roundhouse kick. For what?

That is the point in case.... right there.......... the search for economy if you like in the MIXED Martial Arts........ I struggle with it to be honest......... but hard to convince anyone to return to roots, for one good reason they have seen to much to fast and not have understood what they have seen, the internet!

I understand what you are saying, but its not going down well.

Even many TMA's are just following the MIXED experimentation to evolve and stay financially afloat.

I think a workable solution might be is to approach it in a way to demonstrate the root technique and reconstruct it methods to suit the MIXED approach.........even though this breaks the code (principles - philosophy) of the actual system but assist in refinement to adapt correct technique for real MMA usefulness.

Or else we are all going to...........

 

[Snubnoze707]

Word Salad.

I'm going back to the MT/KB forum.

Have fun with this y'all! I'll come back when you fix this forum...

 

[KarateStylist]

From a TMA background its clear, doubly clear they will not lean towards fundamentals of original fighting teachings anymore.

I think Centaur summarized the utility. Again, that's based on a certain method of fighting.

Wallace proposed a kick boxing or JKD or TKD, or whatever adaptation, again feeding into utility.

Keeping a hand up as some absolute "I know the best-est, most perfect technique..." It's why I beat boxers.

Footnote: See my post re Angles.

 

[KarateStylist]

Word Salad.

I'm going back to the MT/KB forum.

Have fun with this y'all! I'll come back when you fix this forum...

I second your motion. FightTwister's WHY was too much.

 

[KarateStylist]

Also this is still on topic in thread because question is asked why ........Hands up during roundhouse kick. For what?

I posted a series of kumite videos, with gals so as to take the male's inherent physical strength factor out.

They often kick with their hands down. Should the opponent counter... they have the likelihood of getting hit. If they do nothing else.

Which suggests...............

OTOH, they win if the kick scores soundly. Then counter becomes moot 'cause you out-struck the opponent.

Always a context.

Muay Thai & kickboxing make a case for keeping the hand up. Fine.

 

[KarateStylist]

Here's an MMA Friendly Illustration.
Shocking video: Jean-Claude Van Damme almost KO Cody Garbrandt during sparring
972,958 views


one n only
Published on Jan 2, 2018
SUBSCRIBE 1K
The footage shows Van Damme – who is known for his martial arts action movies – toying with the 11-1 brawler.

Always a context. Ironic since T.J. KO'd Cody in the rematch with a head kick.

EDIT: Also Ironic how an established MMA Camp addressed the T issue.

 

[KarateStylist]

Yeah I see where he places his hands kind of the typical touch Karate style.

Here is another view point from a Kung Fu approach where hands slightly low enough for balance but still with right hand as guard up and close whilst the other to the side as I was taught, which also then leads into a hand strike of choice usually that is.

These kung fu instructors tend to explain more. I'll watch.

 

[Muhammad Nasir Khan]

While hitting your someone with a high Round kick, your opponent can always counter it with Cross, Hook Cross...

 

[KarateStylist]

While hitting your someone with a high Round kick, your opponent can always counter it with Cross, Hook Cross...

Yep.

 

[shincheckin]

hands down man down.......for real......... no joke.................keep the hands up 24/7!!

your pictures, textbook technique is with your hands up, you wont always be albe to do that in a fight, but you better try.

 

[FighterTwister]

All you have to do is study tape of the past Kickboxing greats like Wallace and Benny to pick up on form and technique as to what work best and when in instance or movement.


BILL SUPERFOOT WALLACE 1976





Benny Urquidez the jet vs Muay Thai

 

[KarateStylist]

All you have to do is study tape of the past Kickboxing greats like Wallace and Benny to pick up on form and technique as to what work best and when in instance or movement.


BILL SUPERFOOT WALLACE 1976





Benny Urquidez the jet vs Muay Thai

Traditional karate is not kick boxing.

And, you or they removed your recent essay. Good move.