Hands up during roundhouse kick. For what?

[KarateStylist]

hands down man down.......for real......... no joke.................keep the hands up 24/7!!

Ah, this is how you fight competently. This isn't how I fight competently. <{cruzshake}>Plenty of examples of how your method goes wrong. My method goes wrong when karateka think like Muay Thai, or boxing, etc.

your pictures, textbook technique is with your hands up, you wont always be albe to do that in a fight, but you better try.

Good Muay Thai stylists will follow through on your counsel. OTOH, most MMA strikers don't know how to keep the hands up properly anyway.

 

[shincheckin]

Ah, this is how you fight competently. This isn't how I fight competently. <{cruzshake}>Plenty of examples of how your method goes wrong. My method goes wrong when karateka think like Muay Thai, or boxing, etc.


Good Muay Thai stylists will follow through on your counsel. OTOH, most MMA strikers don't know how to keep the hands up properly anyway.

a few things to consider regarding fighting is that 1) its not a perfect science, your always open somewhere, the other would be that you cant always have your hands up in proper guard position 24/7 during a fight either, your hands/arms will have to move to keep you on balance. A analogy I have used in the past is the "surfer stance" while that may be the perfect stance, it is hardly a stance you will catch the surfer in while riding a wave.

Heres some examples of myself kicking, with my hand not in proper position during the fight.

You will find thais doing the same

Although that may be how it happens in a fight, we should still be training to have our hands up, and in proper position, to try and protect ourselves the best that we can at all times.

 

[thehighking]

All kicks are vulnerable to counter.

Except Jon Jones oblique kick that's like a cheat move

 

[KarateStylist]

Except Jon Jones oblique kick that's like a cheat move

We aren't allow to kick like that in kumite. So I have no answer.

 

[KarateStylist]

a few things to consider regarding fighting is that 1) its not a perfect science,...

The object in traditional karate is to be perfect, in principle. This is signified by the very strict scoring in karate kumite competition on technique being 'perfect.' Of course even tournament players fall short of this all the time. Yet in the female kumite vids, there are demonstrations of the perfect fight, in principle. The karate moral is perfect, in principle, can take you a very, very far way over your competition.

The whole caveat here is defining principle.

your always open somewhere,

See, this is the divergence in fighting methodology. YOU are always open somewhere. I'm NEVER open, in principle. In karate kumite practice, however, many if not most karate tournament players are OPEN. So it's problematic to show over the internet.

For practical purpose by what most all MMA-related fighters experience, your statement is absolutely true.

the other would be that you cant always have your hands up in proper guard position 24/7 during a fight either, your hands/arms will have to move to keep you on balance.

Yes, this is what Twister was getting at with your overall thesis on hands up in mind. I, however, was going way beyond that in my traditional karate answer.

Again, for practical purposes by Muay Thai, MMA, I will stipulate your statement is absolutely true.

A analogy I have used in the past is the "surfer stance" while that may be the perfect stance, it is hardly a stance you will catch the surfer in while riding a wave.

Got it. Good illustration. Yes.

Heres some examples of myself kicking, with my hand not in proper position during the fight.
Thanks for the detailed reply.

You will find thais doing the same

Here's a repeat of my global statement on the issue, form above.

See, this is the divergence in fighting methodology. YOU are always open somewhere. I'm NEVER open, in principle.

Although that may be how it happens in a fight, we should still be training to have our hands up, and in proper position, to try and protect ourselves the best that we can at all times.

I will stipulate to your defensive objective of having the hand(s) up, by the Muay Thai style. I will so stipulate. I myself, would also allow for the hand(s) down during an active fight. Because the first priority is to deliver effective technique, power, accuracy, maintain balance, which also forms a basis for defense too.

The issue from Muay Thai, kick boxing, etc, there is the tradeoff between balance into strong technique & proper defensive hand positioning. That would be with my Muay Thai hat on.

I'll post another video below to explain my traditoinal karate principle of never being open.

Thanks for the detailed reply, along with very clear illustrations. MMA needs you badly... I'll post on that too.

 

[KarateStylist]

a few things to consider regarding fighting is that 1) its not a perfect science, your always open somewhere, the other would be that you cant always have your hands up in proper guard position 24/7 during a fight either,,,,

Here's why MMA needs your coaching badly. And I mean badly.

This video highlights PREVIOUS Bellator up & comer, Aaron Pico. Reportedly being helped by none other than Centaur recommended, Jackson / Wink.

Bellator 206: Slo-Mo Cam - Aaron Pico - Knockouts
47,815 views


BellatorMMA
Published on Sep 27, 2018
Take a look at Aaron Pico's KO highlights in slo-mo! And don't miss his upcoming fight against Leandro Higo, this SATURDAY on DAZN. #Belaltor206

Pico KO #1:

Opponent has his left hand up protecting his face, just as you propose with the round kick. Pico clobbers him w a counter hook from underneath.

Pico KO #2:

Opponent has his hands up in double guard protecting his face. Pico goes for left body shot, fells opponent.

Pico KO #3:

Opponent shoot left punch, has right hand protecting torso. Pico shoots left uppercut to body under opponent's guard hand. Drops him hard.

There's plenty of footage of MMA strikers exhibiting virtually no guard by any boxing science.

Now look at the recent KO of KO'r Aaron Pico Himself.

Adam Borics KOs Aaron Pico with a flying knee!
63 views


AFM TV
Published on Jun 15, 2019
Adam Borics remained unbeaten in Bellator 222 on Friday night at the expense of super prospect Aaron Pico, who suffered his second consecutive loss by knockout.

Prior to Boric's knee, Pico is postured with his hands up. Boric's fly's forward and Pico goes to do something I'll let you fill in the Muay Thai blank.

So these are my illustrations relating to my response to your post. Karate {ugh} tradition answer next.

EDIT: Centaur summed it up the hand up, basically the same way you did. I'm fine by Muay Thai.

 

[KarateStylist]

Here's a female JKA Shotokan karate master (TMU):

She's demonstrates the kihon (basic) technique of the down block / low block.
Gedan Barai
76,855 views


BlueDaloo PADI JKASicilia
Published on Nov 26, 2013
Tecnica Gedan Barai

She proves my position. Keepin' it short.

 

[KarateStylist]

a few things to consider regarding fighting is that 1) its not a perfect science, your always open somewhere, the other would be that you cant always have your hands up in proper guard position 24/7 during a fight either, your hands/arms will have to move to keep you on balance. A analogy I have used in the past is the "surfer stance" while that may be the perfect stance, it is hardly a stance you will catch the surfer in while riding a wave.

I'm not suggesting you change what you are seeking to do. Some surfing going on in the kumite video below.

Here's actual kumite tournament footage. We will see some epic fails by what Boxing & Muay Thai & MMA would say is having the hands down. But I just showed that theorem failing w the Aaron Pico vKO vids. Which you acknowledge in your comment.
Top 5 Karate Knockouts (BRUTAL)
30,401 views


Top Karate Video
Published on Dec 24, 2017
Top 5 Knockouts by Top Karate Video

The MMA fav of karate getting KOTFO is the middle one, No.3?, where Blue Male quickly leaps into reverse punch counter expertly by Red Male, Blue with hands down. Blue gets his face punched in, dropped like a stone. Blue completely exposed himself t counter by hands down. What MMA would say.

I see it differently. I see it as the female Shotokan master presents it. Not only the low block technique, either. I'll cut it off there.

EDIT: KO No. 1 is ever better karate illustration wise.

Blue Male gets his head kicked off by second kick when counter punching first kick. As John Hackleman of Chuck Liddlell fame would say... Blue's mistake was that he chambered back to the waist after the counter punch, leaving his head wide open.

The female JKA Shotokan Master however, says that chambering was correct & I would agree. She's also saying so much more. And I also agree with her.

I also posted a more comprehensive answer key concerning this issue w Sinister.

Your response made perfect Muay Thai sense. So go pound some sense into those Aaron Pico opponents for starters!!!Get 'em off their proverbial arse.

 

[shincheckin]

there is the tradeoff between balance into strong technique & proper defensive hand positioning

bingo!

not just MT but any sport. even if its a "weak" kick, if your off balance, it will be done poorly. The key is to remain on balance. another key factor in fighting, is remaining on balance. If your off balance you cannot defend yourself, or attack.

 

[shincheckin]

Pico KO #1:

Opponent has his left hand up protecting his face, just as you propose with the round kick. Pico clobbers him w a counter hook from underneath.

ahh yes, do you see what I mean by always being open somewhere? You block the left hook to the head, your open for the left hook to the body, so on and so forth.

I liked the slame in #4 in the kumite video, I follow some karate stuff on IG and have seen sweeps similar to that done before.

 

[Tahm Kench]

Stops the Checkhook, Overhand

 

[Snubnoze707]

a few things to consider regarding fighting is that 1) its not a perfect science, your always open somewhere, the other would be that you cant always have your hands up in proper guard position 24/7 during a fight either, your hands/arms will have to move to keep you on balance. A analogy I have used in the past is the "surfer stance" while that may be the perfect stance, it is hardly a stance you will catch the surfer in while riding a wave.

Heres some examples of myself kicking, with my hand not in proper position during the fight.

You will find thais doing the same

Although that may be how it happens in a fight, we should still be training to have our hands up, and in proper position, to try and protect ourselves the best that we can at all times.

Not that I disagree with what you are saying, but I don't think action shots are always a perfect representation of form being used because everything is still in motion and a camera shot is taking a split second shot of that motion. I think we can all agree that nobody should throw a kick with their hand glued to their face throughout the delivery, it should be more of a circle motion or out and back, then ending back up at the face.

As you said, this doesn't always have to happen though and wont always happen in a fight, but clearly arm motion of some sort needs to be utilized to create flow and allow the full body to drive the kick with the hips rather than just the leg. Bringing the hands back to the face is an added bonus because it presents more defensive opportunities. I think arm motions are not emphasized enough by most instructors when teaching kicking technique.

 

[Snubnoze707]

Ah, this is how you fight competently. This isn't how I fight competently.

You don't even train, why are you talking about how you fight?

 

[shincheckin]

Not that I disagree with what you are saying, but I don't think action shots are always a perfect representation of form being used because everything is still in motion and a camera shot is taking a split second shot of that motion. I think we can all agree that nobody should throw a kick with their hand glued to their face throughout the delivery, it should be more of a circle motion or out and back, then ending back up at the face.

As you said, this doesn't always have to happen though and wont always happen in a fight, but clearly arm motion of some sort needs to be utilized to create flow and allow the full body to drive the kick with the hips rather than just the leg. Bringing the hands back to the face is an added bonus because it presents more defensive opportunities. I think arm motions are not emphasized enough by most instructors when teaching kicking technique.

I agree with you 100%.

 

[KarateStylist]

You don't even train, why are you talking about how you fight?

I will smoke you... T shirt.

 

[KarateStylist]

How do you continually manage to type so much without making a single point or contribute anything to the topic?

What are you looking for? I will smoke you?

 

[FighterTwister]

I will smoke you... T shirt.

I will smoke you t-shirt <Lmaoo>

They wouldn’t want us in the ring.... it would be a rude awakening

 

[Snubnoze707]

How could I expect you two dweebs to understand the context of that shirt? You're too busy watching McDojo videos you probably aren't watching much actual fighting.

That's Smokin' Jo Nattawut, the American dream. Here's his most recent fight:

 

[FighterTwister]

How could I expect you two dweebs to understand the context of that shirt? You're too busy watching McDojo videos you probably aren't watching much actual fighting.

That's Smokin' Jo Nattawut, the American dream. Here's his most recent fight:

He looks alright, but he's no Saenchai thats for sure.

Besides so many of these fights look like its just tick for tack type fighting.

I want action like this........

 

[Snubnoze707]

He looks alright, but he's no Saenchai thats for sure.

Besides so many of these fights look like its just tick for tack type fighting.

Sure he's not Saenchai, but you don't have to be Michael Jordan to be a top level basketball player.

The fight was non stop strikes with a two downs and a finish in the final round. Plenty of action.