International Hamas launches surprise attack on Israel; Israel has declared a state of war. Vol. VII

[filthybliss]

Hamas are scumbags. Israel are scumbags.

But these megathreads started with "The Palestinian people fully support Hamas OMG", now because it's more convenient the line is "Palestinians must be freed from their Hamas oppressors", and that's the problem. The rationale, the reasoning, the supposed aims of this stupid war, they are just nebulous nonsense without any form or substance. They change from one day to the next. I don't think you were here in the early days in these threads, so I'm not accusing you, but the generic pro-Israeli rhetoric is all over the fucking place. It's like a desperate scramble to defend something that nobody should be defending at this point.

I am not that Pro-Israel, contrary to what a lot of yall think....They are simply the lesser evil.

I mean look at it like this if Hamas had Israel's utlity, there would be an actual genocide with no discourse around it. Israel makes an effort to warn civilians via roof knocking and phone calls. If they wanted to maximize damage, they would not bother with any of that or aid.

 

[filthybliss]

well she looks dead. so i'm assuming she was killed.

are you fucking kidding me....why would they bother carrying a dead body as extra weight then?

 

[KAZSoliloquy]

are you fucking kidding me....why would they bother carrying a dead body as extra weight then?

probably to display somewhere as a warning or trophy, as they are known to do.

 

[Deleted member 585708]

I am not that Pro-Israel, contrary to what a lot of yall think....They are simply the lesser evil.

I mean look at it like this if Hamas had Israel's utlity, there would be an actual genocide with no discourse around it. Israel makes an effort to warn civilians via roof knocking and phone calls. If they wanted to maximize damage, they would not bother with any of that or aid.

But this isn't the case.

Hamas doesn't have Israel's capability, never did have, and never will have.

 

[KAZSoliloquy]

I am not that Pro-Israel, contrary to what a lot of yall think....They are simply the lesser evil.

how would you define "evil" and how would you define "lesser"? because i think you'd have to have a wild perspective of what those words mean to end up with israel

 

[Voodoo_Child906]

well she looks dead. so i'm assuming she was killed.

It would be weird to kill her, then carry her away... she was most likely alive, and knowing that rape is often used as a weapon of war, do you think that they may have taken her away to rape her?

 

[KAZSoliloquy]

It would be weird to kill her, then carry her away... she was most likely alive, and knowing that rape is often used as a weapon of war, do you think that they may have taken her away to rape her?

interesting that you assume that when the report you posted a dozen times specifically stated that hamas stages dead bodies (of both men and women) for humiliation and self-pride.

why would they need to take her away to rape her?

 

[filthybliss]

you have to have something better to reply with than "nuh uh" right? surely you can do better than this.

You are turning me into Geert Wilders. Your only claim to it being a genocide is the body count. Genocide is determined by intent and action to exterminate a group of people....Israel cautions before it bombs, why should they bother if they are commiting a genocide? The proportion of deaths between civilians and combatants is norm for the wars in the ME.

 

[filthybliss]

interesting that you assume that when the report you posted a dozen times specifically stated that hamas stages dead bodies (of both men and women) for humiliation and self-pride.

why would they need to take her away to rape her?

Man, you are fucked in the head...Jesus, so now you are claiming that they just use the dead bodies of women as a sign of celebration? It sounds like they are more than happy to do every bad thing in the book than rape. Weird that you so staunchly bat for them....

 

[KAZSoliloquy]

You are turning me into Geert Wilders. Your only claim to it being a genocide is the body count.

no it's the body count as well as the deliberate displacement, and the deliberate attack of areas they've been displaced to, including hospitals and refugee camps. not to mention the obvious ethnic nature to their extermination.

Genocide is determined by intent and action to exterminate a group of people....Israel cautions before it bombs, why should they bother if they are commiting a genocide? The proportion of deaths between civilians and combatants is norm for the wars in the ME.

they caution before they bomb and then bomb the place you go to. this is a fact.

 

[Strychnine]

The US threatens to withhold arms because Israel continues to block humanitarian aid. In fact, this month is the highest level of humanitarian aid blocked since the conflict began.

But but but Israel cares about humanitarian aid!

If V.P. Harris wins, I'd be willing to hazard that the weapons aid to Israel will be SQUEEZED down to a droplet if not stopped outright.

Why?

Because she won't have an election to win anymore.

 

[Deleted member 585708]

If V.P. Harris wins, I'd be willing to hazard that the weapons aid to Israel will be SQUEEZED down to a droplet if not stopped outright.

Why?

Because she won't have an election to win anymore.

It's the hope that kills you.

There's no trusting Biden or Harris on this issue. They are beyond weak.

 

[Strychnine]

It's the hope that kills you.

There's no trusting Biden or Harris on this issue. They are beyond weak.

The other option is Trump and he thinks that Palestine is a $hithole country.

As I've said before I WANT a two-state solution. With one U.S. presidential candidate, it's possible, with the other it's not.

 

[Deleted member 585708]

The other option is Trump and he thinks that Palestine is a $hithole country.

As I've said before I WANT a two-state solution. With one U.S. presidential candidate, it's possible, with the other it's not.

I don't want Trump either, his "appease me immediately" politics are pathetic too.

But I'm so disappointed in the Democratic Party's response this past year.

Absolutely heart-breakingly ineffectual.

I can't see how Harris can direct the current Israeli government towards a two-state solution, there simply won't be one if Harris wins. There won't be one if Donald wins, either, but for very different reasons.

FWIW, I doubt either massively impact Israel's current strategy unless somehow Netanyahu offended Trump, that's the wildcard. Trump's feelings. He'd turn the tap off at a moment's notice, he's that self-absorbed.

 

[Strychnine]

I don't want Trump either, his "appease me immediately" politics are pathetic too.

But I'm so disappointed in the Democratic Party's response this past year.

Absolutely heart-breakingly ineffectual.

I can't see how Harris can direct the current Israeli government towards a two-state solution, there simply won't be one if Harris wins. There won't be one if Donald wins, either, but for very different reasons.

FWIW, I doubt either massively impact Israel's current strategy unless somehow Netanyahu offended Trump, that's the wildcard. Trump's feelings. He'd turn the tap off at a moment's notice, he's that self-absorbed.

She has an election to win. If she comes out now and says "We're going to shut off the weapons to Israel." She loses, no ifs ands or buts.

If she remains as she is and says that after she wins (hopefully), then she has the power. What will happen, she'll be voted out a year from now? Naaaah, it doesn't work like that.

 

[filthybliss]

no it's the body count as well as the deliberate displacement, and the deliberate attack of areas they've been displaced to, including hospitals and refugee camps. not to mention the obvious ethnic nature to their extermination.

There is ethnic cleansing going on in the West Bank, no questions about that.
But if you are going to blanket bombing hospitals as a genocide in Gaza....then would you say that Russia is committing a genocide on Ukraine?

According to Geneva Conventions, hospitals or refugee camps are within the confinements of International Law if they are being used as militant bases.

Nonetheless, the body count is a weak point because the "rate" is abysmally slow for a genocide and the combatants vs. non-combatants ratio is within norm......

they caution before they bomb and then bomb the place you go to. this is a fact.

It is more complicated than that. The warnings tell them that they have to evacuate, if they stay in their current position, they are 100% going to get bombed but the safe zones provide them a better chanc of survival.
Safe zones don't entail that they will never get striked.....They flatly mean they are less likely to be attacked.
Also, Hamas fires rockets out of a safe zone multiple times, do you expect Israel to keep letting them fire?

 

[KAZSoliloquy]

Man, you are fucked in the head...Jesus, so now you are claiming that they just use the dead bodies of women as a sign of celebration?

i'm not. the UN did. and @Voodoo_Child906 used it as a source.

It sounds like they are more than happy to do every bad thing in the book than rape. Weird that you so staunchly bat for them....

and yet here you are doing the exact same thing for israel. the difference is one side has killed a minimum of 43,000 civilians, likely around 100,000. the other killed 800.

 

[Deleted member 585708]

She has an election to win. If she comes out now and says "We're going to shut off the weapons to Israel." She loses, no ifs ands or buts.

If she remains as she is and says that after she wins (hopefully), then she has the power. What will happen, she'll be voted out a year from now? Naaaah, it doesn't work like that.

I don't know enough about Harris to guess her feelings on this issue.

But she would have to be Netanyahu-style belligerent to do that IMO. If this is something she would lose an election over, surely that suggests there is some real power wielded by pro-Israeli personalities that would work against her if she dared to do that, and could scuttle some of her key policies.

The US has operated with a policy of appeasement (fear?), while publicly asking for a turn of tact. It no longer washes, I'm afraid. All the world sees is appeasement and massive culpability. The US aren't alone in that, don't get me wrong, but Biden is massively responsible for this atrocity of a "war".

 

[filthybliss]

i'm not. the UN did. and @Voodoo_Child906 used it as a source.

You are gish galloping so much. "I didn't make that claim that I just made", hurr durr...

and yet here you are doing the exact same thing for israel.

Oh, I am aware there are rapists in the IDF, I am not a sack of shit like you that selectively cherry picks what rape victims to trust for convenient fodder for talking points.

the difference is one side has killed a minimum of 43,000 civilians, likely around 100,000. the other killed 800.

Yeah, Israel is a stronger force, Hamas should resign then....You are deliberately deflating the Israeli deaths and milking the Palestinian by doubling them. I am repeating myself again....By your repetetive body count logic. The Nazis were morally sound than the British in WW2.

 

[KAZSoliloquy]

There is ethnic cleansing going on in the West Bank, no questions about that.
But if you are going to blanket bombing hospitals as a genocide in Gaza....then would you say that Russia is committing a genocide on Ukraine?

i'd classify it as a war crime but considering they are the same religion and ethnic group, probably not a genocide, unless you count ukraine as a minority group of some kind.

According to Geneva Conventions, hospitals or refugee camps are within the confinements of International Law if they are being used as militant bases.

if you define 50 militant soldiers and 10,000 civilians in a refugee camp as "being used as a military base" then sure. i wouldn't.

Nonetheless, the body count is a weak point because the "rate" is abysmally slow for a genocide and the combatants vs. non-combatants ratio is within norm......

the native americans took hundreds of years to kill off. was that not a genocide then?

It is more complicated than that. The warnings tell them that they have to evacuate, if they stay in their current position, they are 100% going to get bombed but the safe zones provide them a better chanc of survival.
Safe zones don't entail that they will never get striked.....They flatly mean they are less likely to be attacked.

then what good is the warning, dumbass? good guy israel can guarantee you a 5% increase in likelihood to survive their inevitable hellfire. wow, those guys sure are careful.

Also, Hamas fires rockets out of a safe zone multiple times, do you expect Israel to keep letting them fire?

is there no middle ground between "letting them fire" and "turning the entire state into a parking lot?"