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International Hamas launches surprise attack on Israel; Israel has declared a state of war. Vol. VII

Why TF would Hamas surrender? Their leaders are safely in Qatar and every Palestinian civilian dying is a PR win. They don't give a fuck about the people dying.

So you tell me. Why they would surrender or give up hostages?
maybe because actual hamas fighters are dying, and so are their friends and family, yet they still choose to fight. the "leaders" in qatar aren't the only ones choosing to fight on. hamas fighters fight on. the people of gaza WANT them to fight on. 69% of pals in the wb polled believe hamas will WIN the war. the majority WANT hamas in power AFTER the war (that they think they will win).

suggesting that it's just a few safe leaders in qatar responsible for hamas fighting on is a fuckin joke.
 

US pushing Israel to avoid war with Hezbollah​

Washington (AFP) – The United States is pressing Israel to avoid a major war against Lebanon's Hezbollah, with top American officials urging a diplomatic solution in order to prevent another Middle East crisis.

Israeli forces and Iran-backed Hezbollah are exchanging fire on a near-daily basis, and the Israeli army said last week that plans for an offensive in Lebanon were "approved and validated."

Washington is working to lower the temperature, but those efforts -- which come on top of disagreements between the administrations of US President Joe Biden and Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu -- may further add to tensions between the two leaders.

"There is increasing concern among the Biden administration that tit-for-tat violence along the Israel-Lebanon border will escalate into a full-fledged war," said Raphael Cohen, a senior political scientist at the RAND Corporation.

"The stakes are significant for two reasons. First, another Israel-Lebanon war would be very destructive on both sides," Cohen said.

"Second... an Israel-Hezbollah war incurs a greater risk of escalating into a wider regional war than the Gaza war has so far. Hezbollah is the crown jewel in Iran's proxy network, so the thought is that Iran would be more likely to intervene," he said.

Eight months of cross-border violence has killed at least 481 people in Lebanon, mostly fighters but also including 94 civilians, according to an AFP tally.

Israeli authorities say at least 15 soldiers and 11 civilians have been killed in the country's north.

Israeli Defense Minister Yoav Gallant is on a visit to Washington seeking to reaffirm the value of ties with Israel's top ally, and American officials have taken the opportunity to push for a diplomatic solution to the fighting between Hezbollah and Israeli troops.

US Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin hosted Gallant at the Pentagon on Tuesday, warning that "another war between Israel and Hezbollah could easily become a regional war, with terrible consequences for the Middle East."

"Diplomacy is by far the best way to prevent more escalation," he said.

Gallant, speaking at the opening of the meeting with Austin, said that "we are working closely together to achieve an agreement but we must also discuss readiness (for) every possible scenario."

'Avoiding further escalation'​

The previous day, Gallant met for two hours at the State Department with top US diplomat Antony Blinken, who delivered a similar message.

Blinken "underscored the importance of avoiding further escalation of the conflict and reaching a diplomatic resolution that allows both Israeli and Lebanese families to return to their homes," State Department spokesman Matthew Miller said.

Miller told journalists Tuesday that "we think a diplomatic resolution is possible. We think it is in the interests of all parties. And I will say that Minister Gallant confirmed to the secretary yesterday that that is Israel's preferred outcome."

Gallant said Monday that the United States and Israel "must resolve the differences between us quickly and stand together -- this is how we will achieve our goals and weaken our enemies."

But the US pressure over Lebanon may also boost friction between the two sides.

"I think the question is less whether this adds to the tension between Biden and Netanyahu, but rather by how much," Cohen said.

He noted that Netanyahu publicly chastised the United States for what he said was a delay in weapons deliveries -- a situation Washington insists only applies to one shipment of bombs -- while there are also tensions over the humanitarian situation in Gaza and the lack of a post-war plan for the territory.

Several Western diplomats have visited Lebanon in recent months seeking to dial down cross-border tensions, including US envoy Amos Hochstein, who last week called for "urgent" de-escalation.

Cohen said that neither Israel nor Hezbollah ultimately want all-out conflict given the potential consequences for both sides.

"But neither side wants to back down," he said, likening it to "a grand game of chicken where both sides are seeing who swerves first."

https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20240625-us-pushing-israel-to-avoid-war-with-hezbollah
 
maybe because actual hamas fighters are dying, and so are their friends and family, yet they still choose to fight. the "leaders" in qatar aren't the only ones choosing to fight on. hamas fighters fight on. the people of gaza WANT them to fight on. 69% of pals in the wb polled believe hamas will WIN the war. the majority WANT hamas in power AFTER the war (that they think they will win).

suggesting that it's just a few safe leaders in qatar responsible for hamas fighting on is a fuckin joke.
For every Hamas fighter dying theres dozen more of new recruits...
 
maybe because actual hamas fighters are dying, and so are their friends and family, yet they still choose to fight. the "leaders" in qatar aren't the only ones choosing to fight on. hamas fighters fight on. the people of gaza WANT them to fight on. 69% of pals in the wb polled believe hamas will WIN the war. the majority WANT hamas in power AFTER the war (that they think they will win).

suggesting that it's just a few safe leaders in qatar responsible for hamas fighting on is a fuckin joke.
June 19, 2024




Three Palestinian public opinion polls conducted in May 2024 and published in recent weeks showed sustained support for Hamas in the West Bank and Gaza and a slight improvement in support for Fatah. Notably, since the Oct. 7 attack and subsequent war, Hamas has been more popular than Fatah in the West Bank, while Fatah is more popular than Hamas in the Gaza Strip.

Meanwhile, a second poll conducted by the Arab World for Research and Development (AWRAD), an independent think tank based in Ramallah, which surveyed 1,500 adults, showed a bigger drop in Hamas support in both the West Bank and Gaza. It stated that in November 2023, overall support for the group's decision to launch the Oct. 7 attack among Palestinians surveyed was at 75%, but it had dropped to 46% by May 2024. Notably, there is a significant difference in respondents' support, with 62% in the West Bank and only 21% in Gaza supporting the attack.


Marwan Barghouti, a Fatah stalwart currently in an Israeli jail after being charged with murder during the second intifada — Barghouti wins handily.

In a two-way competition between Barghouti and Haniyeh, the former wins 60% of the vote compared with Haniyeh's 40%. In an open-ended question (i.e., without predetermined responses), Marwan Barghouti came first, with 29% of the public mentioning his name; followed by Ismail Haniyeh (14%); exiled Fatah leader Mohammed Dahlan (8%); Hamas' Gaza leader Yahya Sinwar (7%); and Mustafa Barghouti (2%).

In the JMCC poll, support for the two-state solution has gone up to 32% from a low of 25% back in September 2023.
Despite all of the above, Fatah continues to be the most popular political party among Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza Strip, according to the AWRAD poll, which shows that it is supported by 34% of the population. Hamas, by contrast, receives the support of 23%.
Consistent with matchups between figures from these different parties, a hypothetical legislative election would also be characterized by high rates of uncertainty and abstention. Overall, 36% of the electorate is undecided or would not vote in such a contest, with the rate reaching as much as 48% in the West Bank. One-fifth of voters in Gaza (19%) also say they are unsure or would not vote. These results provide further evidence of a trend observed across AWRAD’s polling since 2011, namely that voters in Gaza are more critical of Hamas, while their counterparts in the West Bank are more critical of the PA.
Commentary about the polls varied, with a sizable percentage of Palestinian leaders and opinion makers expressing skepticism and a lack of faith in wartime polls. Ahmad Buderi, a senior reporter for Al Ghad TV, an Arabic-language channel based in London, told Al-Monitor that polls during war “are not final.” Similarly, Jamal Nazzal, a Fatah spokesperson living in Europe, said that in normal times people tend to support those “resistance fighters who have guns rather than those who present a reasonable political narrative.”
 
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Russia is dying the death of 1,000 cuts. Putin has "yes" men all around him and they know they cannot outspend E.U. much less the West.

They're just not telling Putin this for fear of falling out of a window from the 12th floor by "accident."
That's all well and good, but the bottom line is that Ukraine is merely withstanding an assault, that 100% relies on foreign aid.

The two situations are not comparable. Hamas is losing...badly. Russia, not so much. There is zero reason as to why Russia would consider surrendering. There's every reason in the world why Hamas should.
 
That's all well and good, but the bottom line is that Ukraine is merely withstanding an assault, that 100% relies on foreign aid.

The two situations are not comparable. Hamas is losing...badly. Russia, not so much. There is zero reason as to why Russia would consider surrendering. There's every reason in the world why Hamas should.
Russia can withdraw without needing to surrender to end their war. Hamas, not so much….
 
But they're accomplishing their goals. Their goal wasn't to save bloodshed. The goal was to make Israel a pariah. Hamas doesn't think they could defeat Israel militarily. That's delusional.
Well, good luck with that "Kill us all!" war strategy. Hamas sure is "winning", if their goal is for them and their people to get obliterated.
Yep - I'm blaming Israel for how they're conducting this war and all the behavior preceding10/7. They're objectively committing war crimes.
Possibly, but they're fighting war criminals themselves. When nations go to war, do you really think they give a flying fuck about the arbitrary "rules of war"? The only people who have to worry about that shit, are the losers. Israel will not be the losers here, despite what some vegan lesbian terrorist supporters are telling you on Reddit.
 
Putin can unconditionally surrender too and release thousands of kidnapped Ukrainian children. But it's not going to happen.

Why would Putin surrender? Did Ukraine turn Moscow or Leningrad into rubble? Have tens of thousands of civilians died? Ukraine was just now barely allowed to attack Russian soil with Western weapons along the border....

I am not sure you understand the enormous differences between the two countries. If anything, if we were to follow your line of thought, Ukraine should have surrendered to avoid destruction of its cities and death of tens of thousands of its people. Except of course the two conflicts are still vastly different since Ukraine did not stage a once in a lifetime terrorist attack on Russia.
 
Why would Putin surrender? Did Ukraine turn Moscow or Leningrad into rubble? Have tens of thousands of civilians died? Ukraine was just now barely allowed to attack Russian soil with Western weapons along the border....

I am not sure you understand the enormous differences between the two countries. If anything, if we were to follow your line of thought, Ukraine should have surrendered to avoid destruction of its cities and death of tens of thousands of its people. Except of course the two conflicts are still vastly different since Ukraine did not stage a once in a lifetime terrorist attack on Russia.

Yea the point is "Why doesn't Hamas surrender?!" is delusional. They're not going to surrender.
 
Yea the point is "Why doesn't Hamas surrender?!" is delusional. They're not going to surrender.

It feels like you glossed over the point I was making. Gaza is in ruins and its people are displaced and suffering. In Russia that is not the case. You brought up Russia as some great example and asked why Russia doesn't surrender. I am still unsure what you hoped to accomplish with that poorly made analogy. Russia has cleared out their prisons, sent out people it privately considers as second class citizens to fight the war and largely has not paid heavy costs such as destroyed cities.

As much as I hate to say it, Russia has largely been able to withstand the sanctions thanks to China, NK, Iran, and all the other neighboring countries who are helping it bypass the sanctions.

The average person in Moscow doesn't give a shit. The average person in Leningrad doesn't give a shit.

Neither Russia nor Ukraine are using their civilians as human shields.
 
It feels like you glossed over the point I was making. Gaza is in ruins and its people are displaced and suffering. In Russia that is not the case. You brought up Russia as some great example and asked why Russia doesn't surrender. I am still unsure what you hoped to accomplish with that poorly made analogy. Russia has cleared out their prisons, sent out people it privately considers as second class citizens to fight the war and largely has not paid heavy costs such as destroyed cities.

As much as I hate to say it, Russia has largely been able to withstand the sanctions thanks to China, NK, Iran, and all the other neighboring countries who are helping it bypass the sanctions.

The average person in Moscow doesn't give a shit. The average person in Leningrad doesn't give a shit.

Neither Russia nor Ukraine are using their civilians as human shields.

I'm simply saying the prospect of Hamas surrendering all of a sudden is as remote as Russia doing it. Not saying they're the same situation.
 
I'm simply saying the prospect of Hamas surrendering all of a sudden is as remote as Russia doing it. Not saying they're the same situation.

In this analogy Ukraine would be the one to surrender. Russia would simply leave. A slightly more apt analogy would be Israel simply leaving like Russia.

That's fine. If Hamas wants to play this game then Israel should continue to apply pressure until it surrenders. US was in Afghanistan for 20 years. Nothing says Israel must do anything within a specific time frame. If threat of Hamas remains then IDF should remain indefinitely in Gaza and continue kicking their butts.
 
In this analogy Ukraine would be the one to surrender. Russia would simply leave. A slightly more apt analogy would be Israel simply leaving like Russia.

That's fine. If Hamas wants to play this game then Israel should continue to apply pressure until it surrenders. US was in Afghanistan for 20 years. Nothing says Israel must do anything within a specific time frame. If threat of Hamas remains then IDF should remain indefinitely in Gaza and continue kicking their butts.

Yea the US was in Afghanistan for 20 years and then the Taliban came back.

Hamas (or something like it) are just going to come back unless the conditions (occupation) that created it changes.
 
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