International Hamas launches surprise attack on Israel; Israel has declared a state of war. Vol. VII

[Islam Imamate]

It's a but of a childish take tbh.
"You can't keep an idea down!"

Like history has never seen a succesful crackdown on an insurgency.
The war on terror has really left some people a bit delusional about the reality of all out war.

You can say its childish but here's the IDF's top spokesperson echoing that exact statement.

And on Wednesday, the Israel Defense Forces' top spokesman seemed to lay bare the rift at the top of the country's leadership. The central stated goal of the war in Gaza — to destroy Hamas — was not possible, and to maintain it was meant "throwing sand in the eyes of the public," Rear Adm. Daniel Hagari said.

“Hamas is an idea. Anyone who thinks we can eliminate Hamas is wrong," Hagari said in an interview with Israeli broadcaster Channel 13. "The political echelon needs to find an alternative — or it will remain," he said, referring to Hamas.

 

[Islam Imamate]

One "MIGA" party cult in Israel saying, "WE WANT IT ALL!" is not the policy of the entire Israeli government.

They're part of the ruling coalition and have key ministerial posts like Minister of Defense and Finance, acting like they're some fringe with no influence is not accurate. Btw its not just one party, Ben-Gvir and Smotrich are from two different radical parties; Otzma Yehudit and the National Religious Party–Religious Zionism respectively.

 

[Strychnine]

They're part of the ruling coalition and have key ministerial posts like Minister of Defense and Finance, acting like they're some fringe with no influence is not accurate. Btw its not just one party, Ben-Gvir and Smotrich are from two different radical parties; Otzma Yehudit and the National Religious Party–Religious Zionism respectively.

So, if they're voted out, it CAN go back to the direction of a two-party solution?

 

[Islam Imamate]

So, if they're voted out, it CAN go back to the direction of a two-party solution?

No because they're not the only ones against the two state solution. Its possible that Israelis might vote peaceniks in but the last ~20 years of elections there doesn't seem to indicate the Israel public is interested in a two state solution at all. Basically they vote between "keep the status quo of occupation and apartheid" or "annex the West Bank and formalize the apartheid"

 

[Rholk]

You can say its childish but here's the IDF's top spokesperson echoing that exact statement.

I'm not sure you completely understand what is said in that interview.
They won't completely destroy Hamas, no, but they don't have to.
As long as they can destroy Hamas' ability to threaten them, Israel will continue to prosper.
October 7th showed that it will require a more proactive attitude tho.

"He was trying to say the truth," Michael, who is also a member of the Misgav Institute for National Security & Zionist Strategy, said in a phone interview Thursday. But he said he believed Netanyahu understood that truth — and that Israel's goal was ultimately to prevent Hamas from being able to regroup and maintain power in Gaza.

Wether the Palestinians one day manage to get rid of Hamas' is up to them, Israel can't and shouldn't be burdened with that.

 

[Islam Imamate]

I'm not sure you completely understand what is said in that interview.
They won't completely destroy Hamas, no, but they don't have to.
As long as they can destroy Hamas' ability to threaten them, Israel will continue to prosper.
October 7th showed that it will require a more proactive attitude tho.


Wether the Palestinians one day manage to get rid of Hamas' is up to them, Israel can't and shouldn't be burdened with that.

I understood perfectly what was said, seems you didn't. The core point is that this issue can't be resolved purely in military terms, there has to be some political plan for the day after the war and Bibi does not seem to have one.

 

[Samjj]

No because they're not the only ones against the two state solution. Its possible that Israelis might vote peaceniks in but the last ~20 years of elections there doesn't seem to indicate the Israel public is interested in a two state solution at all. Basically they vote between "keep the status quo of occupation and apartheid" or "annex the West Bank and formalize the apartheid"

An Israeli public could be swayed by good faith overtures and reform by Palestinian leadership, eg. unity government in control of the WB/Gaza without Hamas.. publicly putting an end to the martyr's fund, etc.

 

[Strychnine]

No because they're not the only ones against the two state solution. Its possible that Israelis might vote peaceniks in but the last ~20 years of elections there doesn't seem to indicate the Israel public is interested in a two state solution at all. Basically they vote between "keep the status quo of occupation and apartheid" or "annex the West Bank and formalize the apartheid"

I will believe that when Israel puts "We want ALL of the land" into their charter. Just like Hamas has. Until that happens, there's a chance for peace on the Israeli side of governing.

I cannot say that about Hamas.

 

[SandisLL]

When Donald will be POTUS again Israel will recieve very generous assistance for small special operation in Gaza and most likely in Lebanon. More than 95 b USD$ .....

 

[Islam Imamate]

I will believe that when Israel puts "We want ALL of the land" into their charter. Just like Hamas has. Until that happens, there's a chance for peace on the Israeli side of governing.

I cannot say that about Hamas.

That was in the original Likud charter and I am pretty sure that has been pointed out to you at least once if not more times across these threads. Numerous Israeli politicians have made similar claims and references. That you're acting like its some fringe view is odd to me, its obvious a significant portion of the Israeli electorate either wants to maintain the status quo of occupation or move towards complete annexation of the West Bank with no citizenship for the Palestinians.

 

[Rholk]

I understood perfectly what was said, seems you didn't. The core point is that this issue can't be resolved purely in military terms, there has to be some political plan for the day after the war and Bibi does not seem to have one.

That's not the conclusion beeing made there.
Not completely eradicating Hamas does not mean that this can't be resolved militarily. And yes ofcourse the military will need a plan.
I just hope that plan will amount to a complete separation and a bufferzone, with alot more security measures on the border, but more might be needed to guarantee security.

 

[Islam Imamate]

That's not the conclusion beeing made there.
Not completely eradicating Hamas does not mean that this can't be resolved militarily. And yes ofcourse the military will need a plan.
I just hope that plan will amount to a complete separation and a bufferzone, with alot more security measures on the border, but more might be needed to guarantee security.

I think you're missing the point, the military spokesperson is saying that there needs to be some political program for the day after the war and that without it the war can't really be won. Bibi seems reluctant to articulate such a plan because the radical members of his coalition are not okay with anything that would fly with the international community and this is hamstringing his ability to effectively manage the war.

 

[Strychnine]

That was in the original Likud charter and I am pretty sure that has been pointed out to you at least once if not more times across these threads. Numerous Israeli politicians have made similar claims and references. That you're acting like its some fringe view is odd to me, its obvious a significant portion of the Israeli electorate either wants to maintain the status quo of occupation or move towards complete annexation of the West Bank with no citizenship for the Palestinians.

Yes, and the GOP wants to enact "Project 2025", that doesn't mean that the entire U.S. government supports that. A significant portion of what the GOP wants/screeches not U.S. policy make.

Until Israel puts it into their constitution, it's all just bluster, red meat, and mouth frothing.

 

[Islam Imamate]

Yes, and the GOP wants to enact "Project 2025", that doesn't mean that the entire U.S. government supports that. A significant portion of what the GOP wants/screeches not U.S. policy make.

Until Israel puts it into their constitution, it's all just bluster, red meat, and mouth frothing.

The difference is Likud is in power and has been implementing its agenda for ~20 years by now. Pretending like the ruling coalition doesn't represent the will of the people on some level in a representative democracy is odd to me.

 

[SammyPops]

I'm not sure you completely understand what is said in that interview.
They won't completely destroy Hamas, no, but they don't have to.
As long as they can destroy Hamas' ability to threaten them, Israel will continue to prosper.
October 7th showed that it will require a more proactive attitude tho.


Wether the Palestinians one day manage to get rid of Hamas' is up to them, Israel can't and shouldn't be burdened with that.

zionist for 'Israel can kill every non-jew it wants in order to colonize whatever area it wants and drag us into ww3'.

 

[Strychnine]

The difference is Likud is in power and has been implementing its agenda for ~20 years by now. Pretending like the ruling coalition doesn't represent the will of the people on some level in a representative democracy is odd to me.

You have people in the U.S. who believe that women shouldn't have the right to vote, that doesn't mean it's the will of the people.

 

[Islam Imamate]

You have people in the U.S. who believe that women shouldn't have the right to vote, that doesn't mean it's the will of the people.

We're not talking about random "people" here, we're talking about some relatively high level politicians like the Minister of Defense and Finance whose far right parties are part of the ruling coalition. You really don't think elections don't tell us anything about the will of the people? The current ruling coalition didn't get there via a coup, they did so via free and fair elections.

EDIT: Ben-Gvir is the Minister of National Security, not Minister of Defense.

 

[Strychnine]

We're not talking about random "people" here, we're talking about some relatively high level politicians like the Minister of Defense and Finance whose far right parties are part of the ruling coalition. You really don't think elections don't tell us anything about the will of the people? The current ruling coalition didn't get there via a coup, they did so via free and fair elections.

True, you're absolutely 100% spot on.

That being said, they can still be voted out. I believe that once this is all over, cooler heads will prevail, because non-stop war just isn't any way to live. Russia is finding that out the hard way.

 

[Islam Imamate]

True, you're absolutely 100% spot on.

That being said, they can still be voted out. I believe that once this is all over, cooler heads will prevail, because non-stop war just isn't any way to live. Russia is finding that out the hard way.

I don't think that'll happen. I do think we'll see a big electoral shake up but the issues the Israeli public have with Bibi and his ruling coalition isn't that they are against the two state solution, its that Bibi is corrupt, tried to undermine the judiciary, and is seen as responsible for the security failure on Oct 7th. A right wing coalition that addressed those concerns while continuing to block the emergence of a Palestinian state would probably do well.

 

[iwannabeadored]

You know who else didn’t want the Palestinians uniting under the PLA? The Palestinians…..who voted for Hamas back then and who show greater support for them today.

And do tell what would have happened had Qatar funding be kept out of Gaza?

Kflo the dodger