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International Hamas launches surprise attack on Israel; Israel has declared a state of war. Vol. VI

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Hog-train said:
Throughout it's history, the Ottoman Empire was one of the few places where Jews weren't persecuted. As opposed to Europe. So WTF are you talking about.
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There absolutely were Jews being kicked out of present day Israel by the Ottomans starting in the 1870s.
 
Koya said:
So you're saying you're envious of a woman that says she wants million of civilian to go jump and die in the sea ? If you had basic self awareness you'd refrain from that. You're literally glorifying genocidal speech.
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This is why you and nearly everyone I see who advocates for the Palestinians aren't taken seriously by rational adults wielding common sense. She never said she wants those Gazans to go drown in the sea. She said she didn't care. She's conveying that collateral casualties, including civilian casualties, the ones that have so irrefutably been argued in this thread to be the responsibility of Hamas, are not her priority within the scope of her duty to her state. Her priority is to the sustainable safety of the people who elected her.

She most definitely isn't bandying "genocidal speech", LOL.
 
Koya said:
So you're going straight to 1947. I don't think you realize that's the last thing you should do for the sake of your argument. Now we're going to have to talk about how israel was literally formed on massacres and mass displacement of Palestinians. Nakba, that rings a bell ? Deir Yasin massacres that too ? 400 villages slaughtered to the last inhabitant ? Yeah it's a terror state formed upon a massive terror attack. So let me answer in a structured way:

1- 1947 partition of Palestine
2- 1948 Nakba (displacement of 700,000 Palestinians)
3- Oslo accords

1- 1947 partition of Palestine

So first of all, in 1947, the United Nations partitioned the British mandate of Palestine, leading to the 1948 Palestine war and the creation of the State of Israel. At the expiration of the Mandate, privately held lands amounted to approximately 25% of the total territory.[24] Palestinian Arabs, who made up about two-thirds of the population,[25] owned about 90% of privately held lands,[26] while Jews, who made up between a quarter and a third of the population,[27] owned about 7% of the total territory.[28]

The proposed plan was considered to have been pro-Zionist by its detractors, with 56%[9] of the land allocated to the Jewish state despite the Palestinian Arab population numbering twice the Jewish population.[10] The plan was celebrated by most Jews in Palestine[11] and reluctantly[12] accepted by the Jewish Agency for Palestine with misgivings.[13] Zionist leaders viewed the acceptance of the plan as a tactical step and a stepping stone to future territorial expansion over all of Palestine
Source: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Partition_Plan_for_Palestine

so why the population who held 90% of the privately held land should have accepted that we took anything from them because the united nation said so ? Would it have been acceptable for any other country in the world ? Why do you not volunteer to give your country ?

Even David ben gourion wasn't as delusional as you :

If I were an Arab leader, I would never sign an agreement with Israel. It is normal; we have taken their country. It is true God promised it to us, but how could that interest them? Our God is not theirs. There has been anti — Semitism, the Nazis, Hitler, Auschwitz, but was that their fault? They see but one thing: We have come and we have stolen their country. Why would they accept that?” (David Ben Gurion — the first Israeli prime minister — quoted by Nahum Goldmann in Le Paraddoxe Juif (The Jewish Paradox), pp121.)

2- Nakba, 1948


Source: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nakba

How do we call massacring villages and displacing hundreds of thousands of people to achieve a political goal ? Does it seems similar :



Oh yeah that's it. It was terrorism. State sponsored terrorism even. But hey I'm sure it's ok with you. Arabs ? not really humans.

Still not enough? hear it from the mouths of the very soldiers who were here to execute the nakba. they don't mention fighting soldier, they describe in details how they wiped out whole villages, raped 16 yo girls, put people in cages and machine gunned them, and slaughtered them with 250 bullets magazines when they were raising their hands in sign of surrender:



Hey Madmick, if you live in a glass house don't throw stones. Israel is literally built upon ethnic cleansing, massacres and terrorism.

When you say "israeli are courageous, they remember" you should be careful with that rethoric because Palestinians too remember. And they have damn good reasons to.
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None of this addresses the political agreements brokered by the US or international communities towards a two-state solution. You're just babbling about irrelevant squabbling resulting from the impasse of the conflict.

You didn't even attempt to address the one-sided efforts by Israeli leaders I cited towards two-state agreements. Nearly every one of those was in writing.
 
Hog-train said:
Of course the Jewish people said yes to the partition plan. They were a minority of the population and owned less than 10% of the private land, yet were somehow awarded 55% of the land. Why the hell would the Arabs say yes to that?

Regarding any attacks, Jewish militia groups started battling and throwing out Palestinians way before 1947.



This is an often repeated talking point of Israeli proponents when they talk about the 2000 Camp David Summit. "We offered 95% of their territory back but they rejected it!"

But when you delve into the actual details, that's kind of bullshit.

The initial land would only be 73% and then in 10–25 years, slowly would get the some of the land released over years. On top of that, the land would have been divided into 3 territories separated by Israeli land.

Furthermore, the eastern border of the West Bank would be under Israeli control.



They rejected it because the offer was bullshit. It never offered true sovereignty. Under this supposed great offer:

1. Israel would be able to deploy their troops in their territory.
2. Have Israeli radar stations inside the state.
3. Have a permanent security presence along their eastern border with Jordan,.
4. Palestine would have to get Israeli approval for any alliances with anyone.
5. The water resources in the West Bank had to be managed by Israel and shared.
6. Only a maximum of 100,000 Palestinian refugees can return for family reunification or humanitarian reasons. When about 725,000 Palestinians were forced to be refugees.
7. Have the West Bank carved up with Israeli land.
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This is where retards like bob gray ignore this part.
 
My Spot said:
There absolutely were Jews being kicked out of present day Israel by the Ottomans starting in the 1870s.
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What a crock of shit. Why do people like you either 2. boldfaced lie about easily verifiable facts? b. or just clueless?

Jewish immigration INCREASED to Ottoman controlled Palestine during the the late 19th century and early 20th.

There's an entire section with the Jews under Ottoman rule on the Wiki page below.

History of the Jews and Judaism in the Land of Israel - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org
 
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My Spot said:
Read your own link (and lol at using Wiki).

{<jordan}
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Yes showing gifs really bolsters your factually incorrect statement.

Give me a source that shows the Jewish population of Ottoman controlled Palestine decreased from 1870 to 1917.
 
Hog-train said:
Yes showing gifs really bolsters your factually incorrect statement.

Give me a source that shows the Jewish population of Ottoman controlled Palestine decreased from 1870 to 1917.
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I already did in a previous thread and you said you didn't care about stuff that happened before 1947. You can stick to Wikipedia though. <Lmaoo>
 
My Spot said:
I already did in a previous thread and you said you didn't care about stuff that happened before 1947. You can stick to Wikipedia though. <Lmaoo>
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ZZZ source.

Hint: you don't have one because what you're saying is untrue.

Jewish population increased in Palestine after 1870. That's a fact. Now stop replying to me unless you can provide a source.

No wonder your avatar is the Karen Kate Gosselin.
 
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Madmick said:
How does on arrive at such ignorance in the information age with nearly the sum of known history available at the click of a button?

The Zionists and all the Israeli communities were willing to accept the original UN partitioning proposal in 1947 (Ben-Gurion, the pioneering Israeli Prime Minister, was part of that negotiation for over a decade, and participated with the Jewish groups collaborating with the UN). Guess who wasn't, boycotted those deliberations, and who started a war that eventually resulted in Israel declaring itself a sovereign state? Palestinians. They carried out a terrorist attack on civilians in a bus.

Shimon Peres, a famous dove, told his own parliament a "two-state solution is the only solution". He repeatedly made concessions towards that goal in talks moderated by Clinton that failed because his counterpart would never accept any deal. He had been there since 1993 as Rabin's foreign minister working towards that goal, but was also there in 1995.

Netanyahu himself also attempted to work with Clinton in 1998 to realize an accord towards the ultimate goal of a Palestinian state with the Wye River Agreement. This accord was supported by roughly 3 out of 4 Israelis at the time, btw. And it wasn't Netanyahu, but his own Likud party, that undermined him in that pledge, but because of their sabotage, ironically, it was the far more conciliatory Ehud Barak and his labor party that assumed control replacing Netanyahu following a no-confidence vote.

Barak was openly critical of any diplomacy that didn't work towards a Palestinian state permitting them sovereign control as he described alternative control of the territory by Israelis as an "apartheid state". He initally offered 73% of the West Bank, and was ultimately offered the peak 95% figure I cited earlier. Arafat rejected this. LOL, they even were willing to afford Palestine administrative control of nearly the entire East of Jerusalem. They only didn't afford sovereignty there because they wanted to ensure they wouldn't be deprived of access to the Western Wall which is the holiest site in all of Judaism. Call me when the Muslims offer the Jews administrative control over the bulk of Mecca.

Palestine has rejected every offer, every concession. They are the sole impediment to a two-state solution. Because they don't want two states. It's one too many for their liking.
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Gotta love ignorant ass westerners who love making proclamations with zero knowledge. There isn’t a people on the world who would’ve accepted the partition proposal the Palestinians got. The Zionists were 30% of the population and they were given 55% of the land. How is that fair? Hilarious how pro-israel tries to portray the Palestinians as irrational when absolutely nobody would’ve accepted the terms they were offered.
 
Sano said:
1. Countless Israel ministers and leading government officials explicitly expressing ethnic cleansing and genocidam intent with comments like nuking Gaza, turning it into Auswitz, reducing it to tents, creating a new Nakba, damage not accuracy, wanting to create mass shock, cleansing Gaza, that there are no civilians, that Palestinians should jump in the sea, denying two state solutions, and the list goes on,

2. Siege and starvation tactics withholding aid, food and fuel to civilians, thousands upon thousands of tonnes of bombes dropped, 60 percent of all residential buildings destroyed, healthcare system destroyed, almost two million people displaced, half a million starving, 60.000 injured, 20.000 killed mostly women and children with still thousands under the rubble, disease spreading like wildfire, much of Gaza made unihabitable, safe zones bombed, humanitarian disaster and uniform outcry of war crimes.

3. An ever increasing number of accounts and videos of the IDF killing unarmed people in cold blood, including their own hostages and soldiers with a 20 percent friendly fire rate, sniping women and children, executing people, kidnapping, humiliating and torturing civilians, bulldozing monumental, hospitals and churches, making sport out of terrorising.

It couldn't be more out in the open and still people pretend like it isn't happening or if it is, that it doesn't matter, or that you shouldn't believe it. The gaslighting makes it even more evil. "I know we explicitly said that we want to bomb these people back to the stone age, that we want them gone, that we killed tens of thousands of them, that we are starving them, that we prevented them from getting aid and medical relief, that we destroyed their clinics and hospitals, their buildings, homes and crops, that our soldiers shot first and asked later, but, we never killed anyone, never committed war crimes, and we never did anything bad and if you repeat back to us what we did or said, you support terrorist and hate Jews ". The propaganda is nazi level stuff.
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The simultaneous Ukraine and Israel crises have exposed the West. Everyone knew they were full of shit, they simply made it so obvious that it couldn’t be denied by even the most naive. Mask off.
 
Hog-train said:
What a crock of shit. Why do people like you either 2. boldfaced lie about easily verifiable facts? b. or just clueless?

Jewish immigration INCREASED to Ottoman controlled Palestine during the the late 19th century and early 20th.

There's an entire section with the Jews under Ottoman rule on the Wiki page below.

History of the Jews and Judaism in the Land of Israel - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org
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Yes and no. After initial increase, they were kicked out.

From your wiki link

"During the war, many Jews were expelled from Palestine by the Ottoman authorities as enemy nationals, since they had immigrated from countries now at war with the Ottoman Empire. In 1917, the Ottoman authorities carried out the Tel Aviv and Jaffa deportation, expelling the entire Jewish civilian populations of Tel Aviv and Jaffa. Many deportees subsequently died from hunger and disease.[219]
"
 
Rational Poster said:
Huh? They have been releasing casualties by name as they happen.

Since (and including) Oct. 7 461 soldiers have been killed and 1,831 have been wounded. I believe about 120 of the deaths have come directly from fighting in Gaza.

If true, they're actually performing much better than I anticipated.
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Sorry I meant the real figures. But yeah, they are a real army and will win this fight.
 
DEVILsSON said:
Yes and no. After initial increase, they were kicked out.

From your wiki link

"During the war, many Jews were expelled from Palestine by the Ottoman authorities as enemy nationals, since they had immigrated from countries now at war with the Ottoman Empire. In 1917, the Ottoman authorities carried out the Tel Aviv and Jaffa deportation, expelling the entire Jewish civilian populations of Tel Aviv and Jaffa. Many deportees subsequently died from hunger and disease.[219]
"
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The person said they were kicking out people from 1870 when the opposite was happening. This was only one incident in the last year of Ottoman control after which the British ruled from 1917.
 
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