Guys reaping my knee in training?

[redaxe]

So you guys that do gi BJJ all know that you can get DQed in a competition for "reaping the knee" which means passing your foot over your opponent's leg from the outside when in the footlock position, like this:

What he is doing in this picture is clearly ILLEGAL.

However, what if your partner is standing, you are in open guard, and you put your legs in that same position and try to sweep from there? Is it still illegal?

I just started training at a new academy and I've had several guys do this to me. One of them actually triangled his legs around mine that way, and I told him "you can't do that, that's reaping the knee." He said it is legal, and the instructor taught it to him as a sweep. He seemed to have it confused with the 50/50 though, which is legal, where the inside leg crosses over, instead of the outside leg.

We asked the instructor but his answer was kind of unclear, and he kind of said that it depends on the referee, and that its only illegal if you actually crank on his knee or something, which seemed odd to me.

So, what do you guys think? If my opponent is standing, and I triangle my legs around his on the inside (opposite from the 50/50), and I'm not going for a foot lock but using it to sweep instead, is that legal or not?

 

[Jimmy Cerra]

Illegal, sorry bro!

 

[redaxe]

Illegal, sorry bro!

OK, so actually I was right to tell my training partner that he can't legally put his legs in that position to sweep me. Thanks, I feel vindicated now.

I noticed there's nothing written about reaping the knee in the IBJJF rules at all, what gives?

 

[ichimonji]

Many times when you are standing what changes it from being illegal to legal is the fact of whom put the leg in that position.

Think of it this way: I f you slap a ankle lock on some one and they move you foot across their hip (to the reap position) it is still legal.

 

[redaxe]

Many times when you are standing what changes it from being illegal to legal is the fact of whom put the leg in that position.

Think of it this way: I f you slap a ankle lock on some one and they move you foot across their hip (to the reap position) it is still legal.

OK thanks, good to know, but I definitely didn't push the leg across for him. That would be retarded to do in training, since there's no referee and no DQ's.

He reaped my knee intentionally as a way to sweep me, and I said "you can't do that, it's illegal and could hurt my knee" and then we argued about it for a while.

 

[Knock Out Ned]

You were right. I was told, by my instructor that it is still illegal even if you are in a standing position. He told me that he actually got disqualified for it once.

 

[bjjaz]

Definetly illegal.

 

[ichimonji]

As a ref I understand the need for rules in a sport BJJ tourney. But I will also say that I train heel hooks with people in my gym and rarely get hurt.

I would make sure that when train with a partner he has your best interest in mind. I am a huge believer of allowing people to back out of sparing when i teach a class. Not only because I can't possible know all the peoples injuries but not everyone will get along.

If you can't trust the guy and he starts a reap .. just tap. Start over from a safe position. reaping is most often dangerous when one person is not familiar with a technique and spins in the wrong direction.

On another note when I tore my meniscus it was simply someone passing my guard and my legs where in a normal position.

 

[redaxe]

You were right. I was told, by my instructor that it is still illegal even if you are in a standing position. He told me that he actually got disqualified for it once.

Yeah, actually I never had a problem with it when I was in Korea because our instructor there made it perfectly clear to everyone that reaping the knee is illegal, so nobody did it in training either, and if they did do it you'd just say "that's illegal" and they'd go "oh, sorry" and then they'd unwrap the leg and keep going.

It wasn't until I got back to America that guys started reaping my knee all the time in training, being like "what?" when I make a disapproving face, and then arguing with me when I tell them that it's illegal. The one guy in particular was all like "it will only hurt your knee if you're stubborn and choose not to let me sweep you"

We have a competition coming up next weekend, I hope none of my teammates get DQ'ed for it!

 

[Sloth]

I guess it depends on if you are training for competition or not. If you are rolling with guys who don't care about competition, then there is no "legal/illegal" just "safe/unsafe". That's when it's best to stop and discuss with that person what you both are going to do/not do in training.

 

[johnyboy]

why are you not allowed to do it? is it becuase if you turn the wrong way you can blow your knee out?

 

[Knock Out Ned]

Yeah, actually I never had a problem with it when I was in Korea because our instructor there made it perfectly clear to everyone that reaping the knee is illegal, so nobody did it in training either, and if they did do it you'd just say "that's illegal" and they'd go "oh, sorry" and then they'd unwrap the leg and keep going.

It wasn't until I got back to America that guys started reaping my knee all the time in training, being like "what?" when I make a disapproving face, and then arguing with me when I tell them that it's illegal. The one guy in particular was all like "it will only hurt your knee if you're stubborn and choose not to let me sweep you"

We have a competition coming up next weekend, I hope none of my teammates get DQ'ed for it!

My instructor does allow us to reap the knee (and do leg locks), but only in no gi training. When we hold DCBS tournaments here in Busan they allow reaping and all leg locks in no gi advanced ONLY. All the John Frankl MotorOne competitions here also allow reaping and leg locks in the no gi advanced only (I likey a lot). My instructor was the head referee and held a referee seminar for the KBJJC competition that was held in Seoul two weeks ago. Reaping of the knee and leg locks were not allowed in gi or no gi. Whew......
Edit: Oh yeah, at the KBJJC straight ankle locks were allowed, but you couldn't turn on your side and arch your back to finish, you had to be facing your opponent straight on (which sucks, because I like to do them the way that wasn't allowed).

 

[goatfury]

Sexy, sexy!

 

[insomniacl]

Thats kinda weak, people should be training for knee reaps even if they just do sport competition. They're a pretty integral part of leg locks.

 

[SuperSuperRambo]

It's illegal in competition, but we do them often in training at my school.

 

[Mikey Triangles]

OK, so actually I was right to tell my training partner that he can't legally put his legs in that position to sweep me. Thanks, I feel vindicated now.

I noticed there's nothing written about reaping the knee in the IBJJF rules at all, what gives?

He should be sweeping you the other way anyway! it's way easier and legal.

For reference show your friend Bill Cooper's 2008 No-Gi Worlds match against Carlos Diego Ferreira where The Grill is DQ'd for reaping the leg while Carlos was standing.

 

[redaxe]

Sexy, sexy!

Haha that's you isn't it? Thanks for that post on footlock legality in your blog, it's very informative. It was one of the first things that popped up when I googled "reaping the knee."

 

[KILL KILL]

So that's reaping the knee? I do that quite often. Glad I've never done it in competition.

 

[chino3]

Sexy, sexy!

 

[Mikey Triangles]

So that's reaping the knee? I do that quite often. Glad I've never done it in competition.

yeah, the one pictured in the OP is the most subtle version, but it is still a leg reap.