Crime Guy RNCed on NY subway dies. Trial begins 10/21

[nhbbear]

Bunch of people have been mixing up the names lol.

It happens. Also, took a day off and it got spicy in here. What did you do to get everyone so riled up?

 

[BIKES!]

If Elon had purged this Democrat Propaganda outlet earlier, race wars and statues of baby stabbing felons wouldn't have been...

 

[nhbbear]

I bet a bag of severed penises wouldn't taste very good, so I'll have to pass.

And the 'He Didn't Deserve To Die' line is so tired, especially from the left who are against capital punishment in all circumstances. Those who share your philosophy defend multi-murders being put to death while saying the tired line of 'he doesn't deserve to die' shows their credibility on the subject.

Of course you feel Neely didn't deserve to die.
You don't feel anyone 'deserves' to die.

Ever stop my P&M's 'F*** Around & Find Out' thread? We post clips of idiots getting hurt and sometimes seriously injured by their own stunts and accidents. Did they deserve to be hurt or seriously injured? Doesn't matter how you or I feel about it. They took the risk and found out the consequences.

Maybe you should be putting more blame on NYC's DAs for trying to put Penny in prison for as long as 15 years when they should have put Neely in prison for at least a few years so maybe he'll straighten himself out and his death may have never happened.

I have said it so many times, but Penny was put into this position because the justice system didn’t correctly deal with neely in all the times they had him but being progressive they just kept giving chance after chance. And prison isn’t required for every offender, but when he smashed that woman’s face and pushed her onto the tracks, they should have been their clue that he was dangerous. Mental ill, but dangerous. Put him somewhere and keep him there until he will well enough to get out. The system failed us and Penny was the result of a populace pushed too far by aggressive homeless people that are never vibe checked. They are used to people staring down at their hands and ignoring what happens to the other passengers and that is pathetic. I would have done what Penny did but I don’t think I would have killed him. Choke him out and then get a better position to hold him down.

 

[GreatSaintGuillotine]

I bet a bag of severed penises wouldn't taste very good, so I'll have to pass.

And the 'He Didn't Deserve To Die' line is so tired, especially from the left who are against capital punishment in all circumstances. Those who share your philosophy defend multi-murders being put to death while saying the tired line of 'he doesn't deserve to die' shows their credibility on the subject.

Of course you feel Neely didn't deserve to die.
You don't feel anyone 'deserves' to die.

Ever stop my P&M's 'F*** Around & Find Out' thread? We post clips of idiots getting hurt and sometimes seriously injured by their own stunts and accidents. Did they deserve to be hurt or seriously injured? Doesn't matter how you or I feel about it. They took the risk and found out the consequences.

Maybe you should be putting more blame on NYC's DAs for trying to put Penny in prison for as long as 15 years when they should have put Neely in prison for at least a few years so maybe he'll straighten himself out and his death may have never happened.

I'll play mediator here because I genuinely see both sides of this.

Neely should have been in jail to pay for his crimes and get help for his issues. Additionally he didn't have to die. Two things can be true simultaneously.

Penny was good intentioned and made the right call stepping in. He also fucked up with the choking. He certainly didn't mean to kill the man but thats what ended up happening. Objectively speaking, he could have handled things in a better way that left Neely alive and him without the stigma from killing him. Intentions can't change the end result but they do allow us to understand Penny's character. A good kid who tried to help in what he thought was the best way.

On the other side Neely was clearly out of his mind and constantly being a danger to himself and others. It's debatable if he was capable of enough rational thought to remove himself from the situation, what absolutely is not up for debate is that he should never have been released back onto the streets like this to begin with. Man needed to be somewhere that would force him to get clean and provide him mental help so he could stop being a danger to those around him. As much as Neely failed himself in getting into this situation, others failed just as much if not more by allowing this to get worse.

Penny and Neely have degrees of fault in this but the abject failure of the system at large is what allowed this to happen. It was entirely avoidable.

Neely wasn't a good guy by any means. Man was a problem but he was obviously very sick in many ways. It is always unfortunate when someone who is not in their right mind dies like this because there was the potential for them to get better and give back to society. But Penny doesn't deserve to be demonized for this incident.

So far, nearly everyone has taken such hard stances on this and ultimately make themselves blind to valid claims from both sides because its become a political issue instead of a human one.

 

[IDGETKTFO]

I have said it so many times, but Penny was put into this position because the justice system didn’t correctly deal with neely in all the times they had him but being progressive they just kept giving chance after chance. And prison isn’t required for every offender, but when he smashed that woman’s face and pushed her onto the tracks, they should have been their clue that he was dangerous. Mental ill, but dangerous. Put him somewhere and keep him there until he will well enough to get out. The system failed us and Penny was the result of a populace pushed too far by aggressive homeless people that are never vibe checked. They are used to people staring down at their hands and ignoring what happens to the other passengers and that is pathetic. I would have done what Penny did but I don’t think I would have killed him. Choke him out and then get a better position to hold him down.

Unfortunately not everyone is a black belt in BJJ. If there is blame to be made, it should be with the Military training, or lack of. But in all reality, it was a combination of whatever drugs this criminal was on, and being held in a low oxygen situation for too long. That said, I still stand by my opinion that Penny did the right thing.

 

[GreatSaintGuillotine]

It happens. Also, took a day off and it got spicy in here. What did you do to get everyone so riled up?

Have an opinion over a month ago lol. Ever since the results dropped I've just had people quoting my old shit demanding apologies for stating my beliefs on the situation. But hey, I ain't losing any sleep over it. They can be angry for as long as they want, I didn't say anything that requires an apology.

 

[GreatSaintGuillotine]

Unfortunately not everyone is a black belt in BJJ. If there is blame to be made, it should be with the Military training, or lack of. But in all reality, it was a combination of whatever drugs this criminal was on, and being held in a low oxygen situation for too long. That said, I still stand by my opinion that Penny did the right thing.

I absolutely blame military training. I just got done getting my MAI tab so I know exactly how stupid MCMAP is. He was taught stupid so he did stupid shit.

Penny was definitely right to step in and pin him down. There were some poor decisions after that but hindsight is a bitch

 

[GreatSaintGuillotine]

If Elon had purged this Democrat Propaganda outlet earlier, race wars and statues of baby stabbing felons wouldn't have been...

Now it's a right wing propaganda machine which is much better lol.

Social media being political at all is why ain't deleted all my shit. Both parties are loud, stupid, and only care about hating each other. I don't have the patience for it.

 

[IDGETKTFO]

I absolutely blame military training. I just got done getting my MAI tab so I know exactly how stupid MCMAP is. He was taught stupid so he did stupid shit.

Penny was definitely right to step in and pin him down. There were some poor decisions after that but hindsight is a bitch

To be fair, Military training is not meant to worry about subduing drug addicts without lethal force.

 

[Fergelmince]

It happens. Also, took a day off and it got spicy in here. What did you do to get everyone so riled up?

He's too much of a gigantic pussy to own up to his extreme bias, screaming "mUrdEreRr" before the jury decision and now he wants to sound like he's the center of rationale and sensibility.

 

[TankAbbott4Eva]

From what I've read about this dude deserves a medal not a jail sentence. I get a lot of public transport and I'm kind of a big bloke and probably would have to act in this situation and I'd absolutely shit myself, not gonna lie.

 

[GreatSaintGuillotine]

To be fair, Military training is not meant to worry about subduing drug addicts without lethal force.

Actually there are multiple techniques in mcmap intended to subdue the opponent and not kill. For taking POWs or for PMO/MPs to apprehend suspects. But I doubt 90% of marines could remember those under no pressure let alone on the spot like this.

 

[GreatSaintGuillotine]

He's too much of a gigantic pussy to own up to his extreme bias, screaming "mUrdEreRr" before the jury decision and now he wants to sound like he's the center of rationale and sensibility.

My opinion literally never changed. I was talking about the same shit back in October. You just refused to acknowledge it. Cry more

 

[IDGETKTFO]

Actually there are multiple techniques in mcmap intended to subdue the opponent and not kill. For taking POWs or for PMO/MPs to apprehend suspects. But I doubt 90% of marines could remember those under no pressure let alone on the spot like this.

If Military training is any better then your average MMA training then its pretty bad. I was able to submit my brother in law who did a tour in Iraq, when we had a friendly grapple. I only had a few months training at a gracie school about 10 years prior, and didn't even get a white belt.

 

[GreatSaintGuillotine]

If Military training is any better then your average MMA training then its pretty bad. I was able to submit my brother in law who did a tour in Iraq, when we had a friendly grapple. I only had a few months training at a gracie school about 10 years prior, and didn't even get a white belt.

Oh it is absolutely trash. Don't get it twisted. Everything in combatives is trash. I've been doing BJJ for well over a decade and did mma and kickboxing for a long time as well. Taking MCMAP seriously enough to get my tab killed me on the inside lol.

 

[Fergelmince]

My opinion literally never changed. I was talking about the same shit back in October. You just refused to acknowledge it. Cry more

 

[GreatSaintGuillotine]

Literally proving my point lol.

 

[Yorick]

crazy violent man dead.

everyone is safer now.

profit.

 

[GearSolidMetal]

Neely should have been in jail to pay for his crimes and get help for his issues. Additionally he didn't have to die. Two things can be true simultaneously.

Nobody is saying 'Nelly had/deserved to die.'
And everybody agreeing to that doesn't mean we agree with the premise Penny should go to prison.

Penny was good intentioned and made the right call stepping in. He also fucked up with the choking. He certainly didn't mean to kill the man but thats what ended up happening. Objectively speaking, he could have handled things in a better way that left Neely alive and him without the stigma from killing him. Intentions can't change the end result but they do allow us to understand Penny's character. A good kid who tried to help in what he thought was the best way.

I don't think he fucked up with the choking.
You're still taking at face value the headlines that Penny choked Neely for multiple minutes, reported anywhere from 6 to 12.

Penny only applied pressure to the choke when Neely was struggling, and it's very probable for a schizophrenic (which Nelly was) to panic and go into shock.

Neely by being addicted to K2, being schizophrenic, his pre-existing health condition, and threatened an entire subway car of people is at fault for his own death.

On the other side Neely was clearly out of his mind and constantly being a danger to himself and others. It's debatable if he was capable of enough rational thought to remove himself from the situation,

He put himself into that situation.

what absolutely is not up for debate is that he should never have been released back onto the streets like this to begin with.

Thank you.
Could be argued the NYC DA's office are more at fault for Neely's death than Penny, and Neely's assaults after the first one.

Man needed to be somewhere that would force him to get clean and provide him mental help so he could stop being a danger to those around him. As much as Neely failed himself in getting into this situation, others failed just as much if not more by allowing this to get worse.

'Others' who will never face any type of consequences, and put the blame on Penny for Neely's death.

Neely wasn't a good guy by any means. Man was a problem but he was obviously very sick in many ways. It is always unfortunate when someone who is not in their right mind dies like this because there was the potential for them to get better and give back to society.

I've heard of Neely's backstory about the death of his mother. Its a tragedy, and I bet that's just the worst thing that happened during his upbringing.

But the fact is the time he became responsible for himself was a very long time before his death.

Blame the K2 addiction, mental illness, or _______ every adult makes choices for themselves, are are 100% responsible for them. No tragic backstory are excuses for 42 arrests & 4 assaults.

But Penny doesn't deserve to be demonized for this incident.

So far, nearly everyone has taken such hard stances on this and ultimately make themselves blind to valid claims from both sides because its become a political issue instead of a human one.

Yes it is a human issue... and unfortunately all of the media and legal attention was put on Penny, rather than the numerous systemic failures over numerous years that led to Neely's death.

And the sad fact is there are tens of thousands of Jordan Neelys across the world with the system failing for them. Perhaps they weren't choked to death on a subway, but drive through a local homeless district and you'll see hundreds if not thousands of people the system has failed and when they die... one way or another... not only will they be forgotten they probably won't even have funerals.

The left constantly says 'the system is broken' while pointing at capitalism as the failure. While completely ignoring the systems of justice, tolerance, and assistance has completely failed society and the Jordan Neelys of the world.

 

[Fergelmince]

Literally proving my point lol.