Greg Jackson: Success Breeds Criticism

No doubt, but I don't think that is why people criticize his camp.

Thats fine but some are making statements about the fighters personalities which this story was not about but about Jackson and people disliking him and wink.

The jones haters are foaming at the mouth and its not about his fighters personalities.

Some are so fixated on the characters at Jackson's that they they really aren't coherently reading what was asked and what was stated.

People criticize Jackson for all sorts of things but the story was about criticism from people who criticize Jackson and wink, not their fighters.

Yet here we are and people have not really read the story but are commenting on it. Thats the MMA community for you.
 
As Rorian Gracie has said, as the sport has moved away from what it was in its first iteration, it has "become not about who is the best fighter is, it is about who is better within the rules." That is of course just one man's opinion, but I think there is merit to it. As you add tactics to the banned list, insert a time limit, insert rounds, grandfather in boxing judges with idiosyncratic tendencies deciding the outcome of the fights, you get away from letting two guys get in there and decide it for themselves. Obviously, the changes made to the sport by the early 2000's have made for a much more entertaining and marketable sport than the early days of 30+ consecutive minute technical grappling matches, but still, Rorian has a point.


So the sport changed from its original form as "real fighting" into what it is now, and fighters and coaches have adapted to it adapted. You can look at the differences Pride's rules and judging criteria had on how guys fought and who was successful. I picked Rampage to beat Rashad based on
his win over Randleman, but going back and watching that fight after Rampage lost to Rashad, I saw how much the yellow card influenced that fight. Pride encouraged more aggressive fighting, but punished wrestlers and slower working grapplers.

The unified rules too changed what fighting is as well, as fighters and coaches have learned how to be the most successful under those rules. As I said in an earlier post, the Chuck vs. Jardine fight was the fight that really let me know how much things were changing in the sport, and is why I wasn't surprised that Forrest was awarded the decision over Rampage in the title fight. Greg Jackson's influence was huge in that shift, and you started seeing
stuff that you didn't see before as fighters were adjusting (I think of Chuck taking Wand down in the third round to earn points to make sure he won the decision after losing to the Jackson trained Jardine).

So anyway, I took a long time to say that what we are seeing now is elite athletes competing in a sport that has become less and less about how things would look if two guys were locking themselves in a cage and settling it for themselves. Now the incentives are different than in the early days, now it is about money, sponsorships, and preserving one's ability to earn money as a fighter, and fighters and coaches are thinking and behaving more like businessmen than the fighters of 10 years ago. On the one hand, I am glad that guys are making good money now, but on the other hand, I miss the culture of the past when fighters were more than just athletes, they had a bravery and warrior spirit that not a lot of guys possess anymore.

Well, that was a spectacular post, thanks for the reply.

I don't see it exactly the same way, although I do agree with a lot of what you're saying. Chuck taking Wanderlei down really struck a chord, I was pretty surprised when it happened.

With the increase in pay for fighters, you're probably going to see them take less and less risks. Elite fighters have a lot more to lose now than ever before.

For me, I have nothing but respect for Jackson. He trains his fighters to be the best possible versions of themselves, and I don't think he deserves even a tiny fraction of the hate he gets on Sherdog (or from Dana).
 
Well, that was a spectacular post, thanks for the reply.

I don't see it exactly the same way, although I do agree with a lot of what you're saying. Chuck taking Wanderlei down really struck a chord, I was pretty surprised when it happened.

With the increase in pay for fighters, you're probably going to see them take less and less risks. Elite fighters have a lot more to lose now than ever before.

For me, I have nothing but respect for Jackson. He trains his fighters to be the best possible versions of themselves, and I don't think he deserves even a tiny fraction of the hate he gets on Sherdog (or from Dana).

And neither does pretty much 99% of the hate on here, but it is Sherdog. People love to hate.
 
I never claimed that there wasn't ANY criticism of those guys, rather that they were almost universally loved outside of factions with particular agenda, jealousy not being one of them.

The Chuck thread was typical of Pride fans trying to put the UFC's lhw division down, the Chute Box thread was criticising fighters for a lack of success (which is counter to your
argument) and the Fedor thread was typical of UFC fans putting down a Pride fighter (and was
a pretty obvious troll thread, which is why it was so esy to find). So, simply by providing links to those threads without expansion on your part doesn't move the discussion along

My point is that several of Jckson's guys have been criticized for being painfully conservative and therefore boring in some of the highest profile fights in UFC history. I don't see how jealousy is involved in that.

yeah, but no one mentions those of jackson's camp that aren't conservative...cowboy, jones, etc.

either way you can't please haters, that's my point...if it wasn't one thing it would be another...just wait until the blackzillans start dominating, you will see all kinds of criticizing and hate from the quitters and the weak,

not trying to argue with you, we obviously don't see things the same way btw
 
LOL Guida was advised his best strategy was not to fight. Come on now if you're paying for a camp you should get something better then that, at least learn have an idea on how to win, go in slugging and either end it with a KO or get KO'd, rather than be involved in the most boring fight ever.
 
Um, advised by who?

Jackson, who was screaming at him from the corner to engage more?

Of course. Don't you know that Jackson was just pretending to be concerned and was really proud of how much Guida was not engaging? Don't you know the shame he has to feel when one of his fighters actually finishes someone?!

....in other words, people will believe of Jackson what they've believed, because apparently the Jackson camp, according to the consensus of public wisdom, only has one style of point-fighting cowardice. Anything to the contrary is either fake or the fighters telling Jackson to stick it so they can be real men or somesuch.
 
Success breeds criticism...

lol That's a stupid statement and a cop out. You know what else breeds criticism? Failure. Trying to pretend "Oh, people only criticize me because I'm successful" is akin to "haters gonna hate". Both are false and foolish statements.
 
Of course. Don't you know that Jackson was just pretending to be concerned and was really proud of how much Guida was not engaging? Don't you know the shame he has to feel when one of his fighters actually finishes someone?!

....in other words, people will believe of Jackson what they've believed, because apparently the Jackson camp, according to the consensus of public wisdom, only has one style of point-fighting cowardice. Anything to the contrary is either fake or the fighters telling Jackson to stick it so they can be real men or somesuch.

Yeah and don't forget, whenever a Jackson fighter wins by stoppage it's because of that fighter, but when a Jackson fighter wins by decision or losses it's because he followed Greg Jackson's plan
:icon_lol:
 
Success breeds contempt. Jackson is correct success often breeds jealousy. For example, the neighbors you hate win publishers clearinghouse would you say "yay, I'm happy for them" or "Fuck em' I hope they move away and die" something tells me the latter of the two. Greg Jackson is hated for his success and success breeds success.
 
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