Law GOP wants to ban birth control, except for legally married couples only

[IamStryker]

I agree we’re at a stalemate and there’s nothing more to be gained here. We have established that you are in favor of doing exactly what this thread title states, which is to try and deny certain types of contraception to women.

Bottom line:
-Medical professionals and the FDA say Plan B is contraception.
-You and other pro lifers disagree and refuse to accept the medical and scientific viewpoint.
-You and other pro-lifers want to force this misunderstanding onto others’ personal choices by law.

End of story.

I would agree to disagree but you are still misrepresenting here.

1) I actually said I am not in favor of banning plan B because I dont think it would result in less abortions so it's not a battle worth fighting right now. I 100% still find this dishonest fear mongering as the right is absolutely not trying to get rid of contraceptives.

2) Quoting medical professionals as saying plan B is contraception is meaningless. You know very well it isnt ONLY contraception so taking this issue and claiming the right wants to ban contraceptives is dishonest at best and straight up lying at worst. Contraceptives like condoms and the pill would always be readily available in any scenario.

3) You want to side with the "scientific view point" but that is dishonest as well. The more specific and scientific understanding is on the pro life side arguing where exactly life begins. Your argument about when a woman is officially pregnant is just a definitional argument. Its not scientific to argue that the word abortion can not be used because the powers that be decided you dont use the word pregnancy until after implantation. So what? If the definition of pregnant was changed you would then concede this point? This is silly.

 

[BFoe]

I would agree to disagree but you are still misrepresenting here.

1) I actually said I am not in favor of banning plan B because I dont think it would result in less abortions so it's not a battle worth fighting right now. I 100% still find this dishonest fear mongering as the right is absolutely not trying to get rid of contraceptives.

2) Quoting medical professionals as saying plan B is contraception is meaningless. You know very well it isnt ONLY contraception so taking this issue and claiming the right wants to ban contraceptives is dishonest at best and straight up lying at worst. Contraceptives like condoms and the pill would always be readily available in any scenario.

3) You want to side with the "scientific view point" but that is dishonest as well. The more specific and scientific understanding is on the pro life side arguing where exactly life begins. Your argument about when a woman is officially pregnant is just a definitional argument. Its not scientific to argue that the word abortion can not be used because the powers that be decided you dont use the word pregnancy until after implantation. So what? If the definition of pregnant was changed you would then concede this point? This is silly.

1. My apologies if you said you weren’t in favor of banning it. I didn’t catch that.

2. Plan B is only contraception. It is not an abortion pill, it does not induce an abortion. Preventing implantation is not abortion. We do not have any over-the-counter abortion pill in this country.

3. If I told you the sky is blue, would you say my argument is only “definitional”? I am literally talking about facts. This isn’t anything The Powers That Be did, or the Deep State did, or the DNC did, or whatever. It is literally how human biology works. Fertilized egg implanted =pregnancy. If it hasn’t implanted, then no pregnancy.

There is nothing whatsoever dishonest about saying that conservatives are trying to ban contraception. I could qualify that if you like and say “Some conservatives are trying to ban some types of contraception.” Would that be better?

We Americans are sooooo lucky we’ve got the GOP to police how other people choose to live their lives, and deal with their own private family planning issues.

Imagine a girl has protected sex but the condom breaks. Welp, no Plan B for her, the Republican Party and the government has decreed that she must simply wait and see if she ends up pregnant, at which point she must carry it to term, and either raise it for life or spend thousands of dollars on adoption. The entire course of her life is changed, against her will, by the government. Smh.
Land of the Free….

 

[IamStryker]

1. My apologies if you said you weren’t in favor of banning it. I didn’t catch that.

2. Plan B is only contraception. It is not an abortion pill, it does not induce an abortion. Preventing implantation is not abortion. We do not have any over-the-counter abortion pill in this country.

3. If I told you the sky is blue, would you say my argument is only “definitional”? I am literally talking about facts. This isn’t anything The Powers That Be did, or the Deep State did, or the DNC did, or whatever. It is literally how human biology works. Fertilized egg implanted =pregnancy. If it hasn’t implanted, then no pregnancy.

There is nothing whatsoever dishonest about saying that conservatives are trying to ban contraception. I could qualify that if you like and say “Some conservatives are trying to ban some types of contraception.” Would that be better?

We Americans are sooooo lucky we’ve got the GOP to police how other people choose to live their lives, and deal with their own private family planning issues.

Imagine a girl has protected sex but the condom breaks. Welp, no Plan B for her, the Republican Party and the government has decreed that she must simply wait and see if she ends up pregnant, at which point she must carry it to term, and either raise it for life or spend thousands of dollars on adoption. The entire course of her life is changed, against her will, by the government. Smh.
Land of the Free….

I have already explained the facts of what plan B does that makes it unethical to a pro lifer. All that matters here is that you understand that issue. Saying it doesn't cause an abortion because of definitions is meaningless. No one gives a shit. Does it kill a zygote? Yes. Please move on from this boring crap.

Once again still going on about pregnancy. How do you expect this to change anything? You think explaining when a woman is considered pregnant is going to solve this debate? Yeah in order for a doctor to say you are pregnant the zygote must be implanted in the uterus. Congratulations on pointing that out. So what? Is the zygote still "aborted" from plan B? Yes? Ohhhhhhhhh

Here comes the family planning nonsense. Anyone can plan their families without abortion.

She had sex with only a condom and wasnt ready for the consequences? Ok probably shouldnt have done that. But again I am not in favor of taking plan B and I doubt it's on the table at all.

 

[Chappi]

In what situations are you not ok with an abortion?

I'm asking, because as a pro-choice believer I feel abortion should be banned in certain circumstances.

The high school bicycle Stephanie (everyone got a ride, har har) had 4 abortions by the time she was 21. I don't support abortion as birth control, and I don't believe in forced sterilization - so what do you do with people like her? It's disgusting.

With her we should do the same we do with the boys who got her pregnant.

 

[SmilinDesperado]

Full disclosure here. I get really bored with semantics and definitions. I do not care where people decide you are "pregnant". It makes zero difference to the pro life argument.

I find it very odd that you don't understand how big of a problem that is when you're trying to discuss/debate someone.
You've talked about how important it is to understand the other side's argument while simultaneously saying you don't care what their argument is. How does that make sense?
The definitions matter for the sake of conversation and understanding what the other side is saying. That doesn't mean we have to agree on the conclusions , but you do need to understand how they define something to understand how they got to their conclusion, and why they disagree with your conclusions.

At the end of the day, for anyone that thinks a person is created at conception, then there is no negotiation or compromise to be had. They have a rigid view on this, and they are entitled to that view, but they are not entitled for their view to be THE 'correct' view for everyone else.

 

[IamStryker]

I find it very odd that you don't understand how big of a problem that is when you're trying to discuss/debate someone.
You've talked about how important it is to understand the other side's argument while simultaneously saying you don't care what their argument is. How does that make sense?
The definitions matter for the sake of conversation and understanding what the other side is saying. That doesn't mean we have to agree on the conclusions , but you do need to understand how they define something to understand how they got to their conclusion, and why they disagree with your conclusions.

At the end of the day, for anyone that thinks a person is created at conception, then there is no negotiation or compromise to be had. They have a rigid view on this, and they are entitled to that view, but they are not entitled for their view to be THE 'correct' view for everyone else.

If I remember correctly the argument was that you can not say plan B can cause abortions because an abortion must stop/kill a pregnancy and you are not considered pregnant until after implantation.

I understand this argument but I think it's just as bad as the rest of the pro abortion arguments if not worse. All it does is use specific definitions. It doesn't make a moral argument or even a scientific argument for why plan B should be considered ethical. Its not even worth mentioning imo.

 

[Teppodama]

A person's right to make medical decisions for themselves such as whether to have an abortion or not should never be infringed. My taxes should never have to pay for the procedure. If planned parenthood is a worthy service then let it be funded completed through charitable donations and move on.