Elections GOP 2016 Primary Thread V4: Can Trump be Trumped Edition

Discussion in 'The War Room' started by Lead, Aug 23, 2015.

  1. Lead

    Lead /Led/ Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    [​IMG]

    Running
    Jeb Bush (Former FL Gov.)
    Marco Rubio (Current FL Sen.)
    Scott Walker (Current WI Gov.)
    Donald Trump (Businessman, Media Troll Whore)
    Rand Paul (Current KY Sen.)
    Ted Cruz (Current TX Sen.)
    Mike Huckabee (Former AK Gov.)
    Ben Carson (Neurosurgeon...)
    Chris Christie (Current NJ Gov.)
    John Kasich (Current OH Gov.)
    Rick Santorum (Former PA Sen.)
    Carly Fiorina (Former HP CEO)
    Lindsay Graham (Current SC Sen.)
    Bobby Jindal (Current LA Gov.)
    George Pataki (Former NY Gov.)
    Jim Gilmore (Former VA Gov.)


    Ceased Campaign
    Rick Perry (Current TX Gov.)


    2016 RCP Poll Data
    2016 Huffing Post Poll Data

    Previous Threads
    GOP 2016 Primary Thread V3: More God and Guns Edition
    GOP 2016 Primary Thread V2: Detour to the Right Edition
    GOP Road to 2016 Primary Thread

    Popular Threads on Candidates
     
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2015
  2. Lead

    Lead /Led/ Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    Editorial

    Mike Huckabee Needs a History Lesson
     
  3. Lead

    Lead /Led/ Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    Ted Cruz and Marco Rubio brawl on immigration
    Did Ted Cruz Actually Support Legal Status for Undocumented Immigrants?
    Echoing Trump, Cruz Releases Sweeping Plan to Crack Down on Immigration
    Cruz goes to Rubio home turf to prove immigration cred
    Very interesting Cruz is squaring off with Rubio instead of his own lane with Trump and Carson. I think that really proves he believes they will fall apart on their own. Before this, he was courting Rand's libertarian base away from him. Now he's going against what he sees as the biggest establishment thread between Kasich, Bush and Rubio. Thing that's most interesting is during the last debate, Rubio kept the most quiet of the three about the whole thing yet Cruz is specifically at him. They are the #3 and #4 candidates in the race but they seem to really believe their the legitimate #1 and #2 come time in Iowa and NH.
     
  4. Lead

    Lead /Led/ Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    Carson campaign cancels slew of post-Christmas Iowa ads
     
  5. Lead

    Lead /Led/ Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    Reversed 1
     
  6. Lead

    Lead /Led/ Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    Rubio Campaign Snags Former Romney Policy Director
     
  7. Lead

    Lead /Led/ Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    Meanwhile, the #1 and #2 guys are squaring off. Seems like a four man race every since the 3rd debate if Bush can't get back on his feet.

    Trump compares 'pathological' Carson to child molesters
    Trump attacks Carson in Friday the 13th-themed video
    Trump lays into Carson in 9-minute rant: 'How stupid are the people of Iowa?'
    Christie on Trump's attacks on Carson: Not fitting of a presidential candidate
    With Carson on the defense, Trump pounces
     
  8. Lead

    Lead /Led/ Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    Trump says his backers would support an independent bid
     
  9. Lead

    Lead /Led/ Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    Reversed 2
     
  10. speakhandsforme

    speakhandsforme Banned Banned

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    CNN just had a Evangelical panel on Trump and it was fucking depressing beyond possibility.

    As a Christian, I wish that Christian America wasn't a political demographic worthy of deriding. The American political information system and the democratic system itself makes the Christian faith a fucking joke in this country.
     
  11. Lead

    Lead /Led/ Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    Poll: Republicans more optimistic about their party's ideas
    Pollsters: The media are ruining our industry
     
  12. Lead

    Lead /Led/ Staff Member Senior Moderator

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  13. Jack V Savage

    Jack V Savage Secretary of Keepin' It Real/Nicest Guy on Sherdog

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    Haha. I'll vote in this one. From my perspective as a liberal, Trump is the obvious choice, both because in a lot of ways he's the most moderate candidate and because he has no chance of winning.
     
  14. Makani

    Makani Ain't Nobody Ever Been Free

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    "Darwin Deason"

    trololol.

    Also, poll from CBS and the NYT today has Trump at 27 and Carson at 23. What a country.
     
  15. speakhandsforme

    speakhandsforme Banned Banned

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    Wow, Trump's attack video on Carson is unbelievable. It's like something you'd see in a parody of politics like in The Campaign.

    Let these morons eat each other. They're just clearing the way for Rubio.
     
  16. Culombo

    Culombo Brown Belt

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    trump is up 13 pts in iowa in another new cnn poll .. trump isn't going anywhere .. yet anyways
     
  17. ultraninjastar

    ultraninjastar Supreme Overlord

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    Deez Nuts.
     
  18. Adamant

    Adamant GOLD BELT

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    Will be interesting to see how the national polls look in a week.
     
  19. JosephDredd

    JosephDredd Gold Belt

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    So it's kind of gone under the radar, but Trump (link) just announced that Carson is a pathological liar and those kinds of pathologies are incurable because it's exactly like child molestation.



    I'm going to vote for Trump twice!
     
  20. Lead

    Lead /Led/ Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    I've noticed the last CNN national poll seemed like an outlier and found that the pool of voters they use varies a lot from other pollsters at this point. I'm not sure the same is true with Iowa but out of the last three polls, we have Cruz-Trump -2 points apart, +5, and 13+. Decent variance there. The monmouth poll actually ends the same as the poll you reference but begins later at 12/3 instead of 11/28.

    Also, none of these polls are covering a range after Trump's recent remarks so if you are implying that this poll shows his statements didn't affect him, that is untrue. I wouldn't be surprised however if polls that do come out in the future show him still high as I don't think his voters seem to care. Cruz certainly is surging in Iowa however and the article I posted above may suggest Carson my drop from the race early.
     
  21. Lead

    Lead /Led/ Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    Forgot that grass roots politician.
     
  22. JosephDredd

    JosephDredd Gold Belt

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    Was this the incident where he claimed there were 20 000 people and there were only 5 000? Or one of the incidents where he claimed Bernie Sanders-like attendence (40 000) and there were only 20 000?
     
  23. Lead

    Lead /Led/ Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    Cruz vs. Rubio Is A Long Way Off
     
  24. Rex Kwon Do

    Rex Kwon Do ál-ḥámdúlílláh

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    Why the fuck would anyone support Bush? Do they not realize the people don't support him? Of course they do, they just want him in there because he's one of them.

    Crooked bastards.
     
  25. Cold Front

    Cold Front Double Yellow Card Double Yellow Card

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    From the previous thread:

    Well, no, they haven't ruled on it. Besides, even if you don't believe that's the case, it's not as if the Supreme Court hasn't been known to alter its opinions from time to time. The fact that half-a-dozen GOP candidates have voiced their opinion on this matter in the negative, with some saying that there ought to be a change to the Constitution and some not, ought to give you pause.

    So make the statutory change and throw it into the courts. At least then we'll know.
     
  26. Adamant

    Adamant GOLD BELT

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    This one was confirmed at 20,000. I didn't hear Trump, or anyone else, claim otherwise.
     
  27. Gervinho

    Gervinho Double Yellow Card Double Yellow Card

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    Trump really fucked up, but the events in Paris will take the shine out of his pathetic attack on carson. Trump will struggle big time the moment they reduce the numbers in the debate. As long as you have about 10 people, he can get away with not saying much. even though paul embarrassed him on the the China thing
     
  28. Lead

    Lead /Led/ Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    He had a long delay since this endorsement so it is kinda odd he threw it behind Jeb, especially when he is no longer the favorite or even having a decent chance of winning. I think people are talking about a Christie comeback even more than Jeb having a chance.
     
  29. Lead

    Lead /Led/ Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    Yes, they have. How can you blatantly just say something like that when it's not true?

    Inglis v. Trustees of Sailor's Snug Harbor
    "Nothing is better settled at the common law than the doctrine that the children even of aliens born in a country while the parents are resident there under the protection of the government and owing a temporary allegiance thereto are subjects by birth.."

    United States v. Wong Kim Ark
    Supreme Court ruled that a person who
    -Is born in the United States of parents
    -who, at the time of his birth, are subjects of a foreign power
    -whose parents have a permanent domicile and residence in the United States
    -whose parents are there carrying on business and are not employed in any diplomatic or official capacity of the foreign power to which they are subject
    becomes, at the time of his birth, a citizen of the United States by virtue of the first clause of the 14th Amendment of the Constitution

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birthright_citizenship_in_the_United_States

    If your point is they should just throw it out there even though it won't work, then sure. I rather not have an entire media cycle revolve around it however. Hasn't helped anything for the GOP.
     
  30. JosephDredd

    JosephDredd Gold Belt

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    A quick search reveals it was only 15 000. Not bad. He only exaggerated by 33.3%.
     
  31. JosephDredd

    JosephDredd Gold Belt

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    Article and video (link) on Trump's 11/12/15 speech which was essentially a 90 minute nervous breakdown which included challenging Ben Carson to stab him in the gut.

    [​IMG]

    Trump has frequently expressed disbelief at how stupid Iowans are for favouring Carson, a man who recently announced that the way to deal with illegal immigration is have American multinationals teach them how to farm in their own countries.
     
  32. Gervinho

    Gervinho Double Yellow Card Double Yellow Card

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    With Trump and what he has achieved last few months. Does this settle once for all that the R party is full of racists and bigots? I know right wingers love to say blacks are brainwashed and dems has convinced them they are racists. But I think its clear why so many minorities are against this party. huge part of its base are racists
     
  33. Cold Front

    Cold Front Double Yellow Card Double Yellow Card

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    I'm aware of all this stuff and it doesn't matter. No one questioned the right of Wong Kim Ark's parents to be in the United States when their son was born. So the case does not cleanly address the modern context of children born to illegal aliens.

    If Judge Posner doesn't think it requires a Constitutional amendment and the Heritage Foundation Constitutional scholar doesn't think it requires a Constitutional amendment, then perhaps you shouldn't feel so confident that it requires one.

    Here's Judge Posner:

     
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2015
  34. JosephDredd

    JosephDredd Gold Belt

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  35. Adamant

    Adamant GOLD BELT

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  36. Lead

    Lead /Led/ Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    He hasn't won a primary. It settles that a lot of America is frustrated and venting the anger in a really really dumb way.
     
  37. LogicalInsanity

    LogicalInsanity Co-Founder of SDLS (Sexual Deviant Leftist Scum)

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    Trump has my my vote.

    In this poll.
     
  38. bad seed

    bad seed Double Yellow Card Double Yellow Card

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  39. GearSolidMetal

    GearSolidMetal I'm here to chew bubblegum and bang your mom. Platinum Member

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    The thing about this, is they're leaving out Trump and Carson.

    Trump seems to be sticking in there, no matter how over-the-top he gets, and he's really been over it ever since going 2nd in Iowa. Two long rants in which he's cursed primary voters in Iowa, and his numbers there, and nationally, have remained pretty damn high.

    Carson, no matter how much he seems to be falling asleep during the debates, is maintaining high numbers as well.

    Cruz and Rubio has gained a few points each in the last two weeks, but not enough to predict they're going to be the last men standing for the nomination.

    We currently have 12 candidates, and hopefully those that don't have a chance will be dropping out sometime this century. But they're still getting interviews on Fox News segments, and opportunities to self-promote to a national audience during the debates. (Ever wonder why the four guys that are between 1%-2.4% got an entire two hours to yack to millions of viewers during the Fox Business debate?) As they drop out, it'll be interesting to see how their numbers are spread across the relevant candidates.

    It'd be very bizarre if we have four candidates, each with over 20% in the polls. Very bizarre.
     
  40. K1levelgrappler

    K1levelgrappler Black Belt

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    Finally a conservative with a comprehensive anti-terror plan.

    [​IMG]
     
  41. GearSolidMetal

    GearSolidMetal I'm here to chew bubblegum and bang your mom. Platinum Member

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    As a Conservative, Trump is far more desirable than most of the candidates.

    No chance of winning? Reality check. Look at the presidential elections since 1980 and possibly before. American voters, as a whole, go for the most charasmatic candidate, reguardless of issues and controversies.

    Carter VS Reagan - Reagan was the most charasmatic, by a long shot.
    Clinton VS Bush VS Perot - Clinton won the three-way dance because of charisma.
    Clinton VS Dole - Oh please, wasn't even close.
    Bush VS Gore - Gore could put an insomiac to sleep.
    Bush VS Kerry - Ditto on Kerry.
    Obama VS McCain - McCain had the life of a walker on The Walking Dead.
    Obama VS Romney - Perhaps if Romney kept the momentum up after the 1st debate, he would have won. But he coasted and practically sucked the excitement out of his campaign.

    So, it would be Trump VS..... Biden? Kerry?

    I'd take that bet. Sure, you could say Trump has alot of Skeletons in the closet, and he probably does, but Obama danced around his exposed controvercies like he was Michael Jackson. Obama and Trump have dodged their controvercies with their likeability, whit, and charisma.

    Unless someone can talk Warren to jumping into the race, I can see it be smooth sailing for whoever is the Republican nominee.
     
  42. Adamant

    Adamant GOLD BELT

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    They said 20,000 tickets were distributed, but I guess not everybody showed up.
     
  43. Tigerknee

    Tigerknee Red Belt

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    Rubio has actually gone down in the polls a tad since the debate, this narrative of him being the nominee is just liberal media propaganda
     
  44. GearSolidMetal

    GearSolidMetal I'm here to chew bubblegum and bang your mom. Platinum Member

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  45. Cold Front

    Cold Front Double Yellow Card Double Yellow Card

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    No, he's not. Trump's value is that he forces the other candidates out of their comfort zone and forces them to deal with issues they prefer to sideline.

    But he's not conservative, and much of his support doesn't come from conservatives.
     
  46. Adamant

    Adamant GOLD BELT

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    You really think he can take Hillary down? His 500-600k twitter followers vs her 4.25 million, doesn't seem likely.
     
  47. speakhandsforme

    speakhandsforme Banned Banned

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    I still think he's the clear favorite given the incompetence of Trump and Carson, and the former's proclivity for tearing into the latter.

    Cruz is the other dark horse, but I'm holding on to hope that his ultra-douche face will be his undoing.
     
  48. Sol Invictus

    Sol Invictus White Belt

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    I haven't read all 81 pages, maybe this has been posted but I think it's genius:

     
  49. Makani

    Makani Ain't Nobody Ever Been Free

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    Wanted to vote Trump for the obvious lulz, but Kasich overrode my troll vote.
     
  50. bad seed

    bad seed Double Yellow Card Double Yellow Card

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    Hillary's lead over Sanders in the polls is smaller than her lead over Obama was at this point in primary in '07. And she wasnt in a steep downward trend at the time.
     
  51. Lead

    Lead /Led/ Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    2 weeks ago, at that point in past primaries, the frontrunners were

    08 Giuliani
    04 Howard Dean
    92 Jesse Jackson

    It's still early and the "he's still in the lead" talk isn't a counter to the argument that it's early because it is.
     
  52. Lead

    Lead /Led/ Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    Just say this on facebook. Pretty inmpressive. The Jeb, Walker and Rubio one's are the most hilarious.
     
  53. Juventud

    Juventud Black Belt

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    Voted Trump because in theory the only person who can stop him is himself. It will probably happen but so far nothing has shown it will.

    If Trump implodes it's still Bush. He's got the money to go to the end and throughout the primary he'll be dragged right just enough like he's been on anchor babies to be the party safe pick.
    IMO Rubio isn't ready for the big time yet and Cruz might be too crazy.
     
  54. Adamant

    Adamant GOLD BELT

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    What if Biden or Warren jumps in? Can he take them down?
     
  55. Lead

    Lead /Led/ Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    Can you tell me where he has gone down in the polls a tad since because there hasn't been a national poll out even since the last debate, let alone one which covers a time range post debate. Even if one were to be out at his point, you'd need about 3 to have an idea where they stand post debate. We need a tally of how many times we get comments on polls that have no basis at all. It's really weird it keeps happening.

    Also, are you insinuating that the "liberal media" wants Rubio to win the nomination?
     
  56. tenniswhiz

    tenniswhiz Steel Belt

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    I pick Trump because I want him to entertain us for a while longer.
    And then we'll have another Democrat in the White House.
     
  57. Lead

    Lead /Led/ Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    I;ve heard the original intention of the amendment. The law has ruled on a broader interpretation since it was put in place and to challenge that interpretation is a long and hard process that just isn't reasonable compared to the other things you could address and focus on as POTUS
     
  58. JDragon

    JDragon DOX News Anchor Platinum Member

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    Generally speaking...does anybody remember this guy called Howard Dean?

    Nothing matters until the first primary is over.
     
  59. Jack V Savage

    Jack V Savage Secretary of Keepin' It Real/Nicest Guy on Sherdog

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    Yeah, that's crazy. Not only because the media aren't liberal, but because actual liberals are pretty scared of Rubio and not scared at all of *any* of the other candidates.
     
  60. Anung Un Rama

    Anung Un Rama Idol of Millions Platinum Member

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    [​IMG]
     
  61. Lead

    Lead /Led/ Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    Picked Kasich but Rubio is almost neck and neck for second. I doubt I'll like either candidates foreign policy however and Rubio seems far more hawkish at the moment than Kasich.
     
  62. Tropodan

    Tropodan Silver Belt

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    Heeeeeyaaaw!!!!
     
  63. Lead

    Lead /Led/ Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    If I wanted to pick the candidate to face Clinton for her to win, it easily would be Trump or Bush hands down. Bush-Clinton would make it just about which name holds stronger over the years and if he is struggling this hard in his own party in the polls, the national election would be disastrous; possibly the first time Dems benefit from a low turnout.

    If it was Trump, there would be loads of stuff to attack him with and once it's down to 1 on 1, it's not like the primaries we see now where people are worried about going at him and rather just wait for someone else to do it. You already have the nomination secured on your side AND you're a woman. They will be able to pull so much on Trump's view on women. Fiorina tried it somewhat but that is in a GOP primary. In a GE, it would work so much better.


    Anyways, that whole comment above had little merit since the first comment about the poll was a broad claim that I think he just made up and then the second is the same thing. "Liberal media" is a scapegoat for making a point now. I don't like candidate X so I'll say the "liberal media" wants candidate X to win which means there is definitely something wrong with that candidate or they are somehow secretly liberal.
     
  64. Ayin

    Ayin Black Belt

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    Oh my gosh that caught me unprepared. That's hilarious Anung, the perfect response.
     
  65. Cold Front

    Cold Front Double Yellow Card Double Yellow Card

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    Well, we have Judge Posner's claim that it would take nothing more than a statutory change by Congress, which is not a long and arduous process. It is something which is quite easily done with a GOP Congress and a GOP president, so long as that president is amenable to the change.
     
  66. speakhandsforme

    speakhandsforme Banned Banned

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    How did Carson gain any followers? He was lethargic and incomprehensible.
     
  67. GearSolidMetal

    GearSolidMetal I'm here to chew bubblegum and bang your mom. Platinum Member

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    This cycle is completely differ.....

    Jessie Jackson? Really?

    Anyway, usually there's already been significant changes in approval numbers since the debates start. But since August 9th, they've been mostly stagnant. Bush's numbers have dropped to almost nothing, only one candidate has dropped out, and the top two candidates are still the top two candidates.

    You're mostly right with the excuse that 'Its early.' But when does it become 'not early?'

    From day 180 to 90 before the first primary Trump is #1 in the polls, longer than any other non-establishment candidate since Reagan.

    Other candidates being asked about Trump's success in the polls with a mere 'It's early' is excusable, because what are they gonna say? "Yeah, I'm really fucked."

    But in honestly attempting to assess the race for the nomination, saying 'Its early' comes off a biased and dismissive of success, merely because your candidate isn't high in the polls.

    'Hey Lead, your favorite guy looks like he's going to win the nomination! Isn't that great?'

    'Its early.'
     
  68. Lead

    Lead /Led/ Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    Viguerie endorses Cruz, asks other conservatives to follow suitl
    Marco Rubio secures another top GOP donor

    Rep. Bucshon endorses Rubio for president

     
  69. Cold Front

    Cold Front Double Yellow Card Double Yellow Card

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    Deleted. Will put comment in new thread.
     
  70. Flamma

    Flamma Blue Belt

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    I liked Rand Paul until he said he wanted a 14.5% flat taxation rate. One of the US's biggest problems, and something they did not touch on, is the yawning gap between the regular worker and the executives in America - essentially executive corporate greed. A 14.5% flat rate just reinforces that and is surely reckless regards addressing the debt and deficit. You need to be taxing these elements progressively, not letting them pocket more and more while the countries finances go south. Anyway, did not warm to any of the candidates. As an outsider looking in I'm almost backing Trump. Pluses he's an independent thinker and a high achiever, a practical guy but also a straight shooter and won't be a Wall Street creature. Down side I think he'll have a big conflict of interest to address with his businesses and the mass illegals deportation plan... is that bluster or for real? He has to explain how that is going to be done. I can just see the UN and all the Amnesty International types going into meltdown over that. You see the media over these Muslims invading Europe, imagine the scenario with millions of waling Mex's being punted over Donald's new wall. It isn't happening is it. But it says how bad the rest were that I'm seeing Trump as the best candidate. Some of the others are terrible, Huckabee especially is a joke. Jeb has some good qualities but do you really want another Bush?
     
  71. Jack V Savage

    Jack V Savage Secretary of Keepin' It Real/Nicest Guy on Sherdog

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    Carson or Cruz would be easy wins, too, I think. That's among the serious candidates. Christie and Kasich would probably do OK in a general but they have no chance in the primary. Rubio can actually win over conservatives and do well in the general--though as he rises, he's going to have to confront the base's distrust of him on immigration.

    It's funny how that parallels the Democratic primary discussions. I think I have to do some retractions on my denials of equivalence.

    But there isn't a strong correlation between leading at this point an eventual success. There's a stronger correlation between success and the endorsement race, which Rubio is starting to do well in.
     
  72. Lead

    Lead /Led/ Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    Reports: Trump to meet with Netanyahu during Dec. 28 Israel visit

    Trump proclaims he will 'never' leave the race

    Cruz keeps distancing himself from Trump's 'Muslim' proposal
     
  73. carlos cadona

    carlos cadona Opinions subject to change Banned

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    I want Trump to get the nomination for 2 reason, 1 he's more moderate in comparison to the rest of the field on most issues(other than immigration) and 2 his trolling is destroying legitimate political discussion within his party.
     
  74. JosephDredd

    JosephDredd Gold Belt

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    I was disappointed to learn, last night, that Trump was an anti-vaxxer. Up until now all the crazy shit he said still had undeniable comedic elements and the more extreme stuff (like when his supporters committed a hate crime assault against a Mexican and he refused to condemn them, saying his supporters were "passionate") had an element of shocking surrealism to it that made it easy to dispel with an eye-roll and a bemused shake of the head.

    Now he's simply saying shit that has been far too stupid and repeated for far too long for it to still be dismissed as his peculiar charm. It's strange to be let down by a candidate you only supported jokingly.
     
  75. GearSolidMetal

    GearSolidMetal I'm here to chew bubblegum and bang your mom. Platinum Member

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    Jeb obviously has the endorcement of his father and brother, how's that working out for him?

    History of the primaries are relevant, but also irrelevant because Trump announced and blew our minds with what he said in the weeks afterward, and that rocketed him to the top of the polls. That's evidence that we have primary voters that aren't like they were in prior cycles.

    There's been billionaires that said they're self-funding their campaigns, and they did about as well as Rand Paul is right now.
     
  76. Lead

    Lead /Led/ Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    Bloomberg Politics Poll: Nearly Two-Thirds of Likely GOP Primary Voters Back Trump's Muslim Ban
     
  77. Cold Front

    Cold Front Double Yellow Card Double Yellow Card

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    Legitimate political discussion?
     
  78. Denter

    Denter Silver Belt

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    You could always appoint 10 new Supreme Court justices, and have them revisit the case.
     
  79. Jack V Savage

    Jack V Savage Secretary of Keepin' It Real/Nicest Guy on Sherdog

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    It's possible that there's been some kind of fundamental shift and history is no longer any kind of guide (I don't see any good reason to believe it, but maybe), but at least understand that when people dismiss early polling, it's because they disagree with you on that claim. It's not always a matter of bias.
     
  80. Lead

    Lead /Led/ Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    Jeb Bush’s super PAC burning through money with little to show for it
     

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