Goodbye Fedor vs. Crocop: The HW division is on a whole new level now

[Deleted member 110072]

stipe's footwork is levels above the wild and non technical style of striking and footwork fedor has

in fact, stipe's footwork is a huge reason hes the GOAT and why hes out struck every single legend they put in front of him

gustafsson would give fedor and cro cop trouble in their prime, btw.

Honesty I think Gus would get destroyed quickly by both of them, he's just too hittable to face guys with extreme power and accuracy, just look at the Rumble fight.

Fedor these days has actually become more akin to Stipe, a lot more upright and predictable plus no longer has the timing and reactions to slip punchs. What you call "wild" I call someone using strong unpredictable foot and hip movement to avoid taking many punchs, I'm guessing Stipe last night took more shots than Fedor did in the first 10 years of his career.

 

[Joseph_McBride]

Fedor vs Cro-Cop is the only other fight in the discussion for best Heavyweight title fight as what we saw last night.

 

[Rudeboyben84]

5-6 in the UFC.

31 when he joined.

Pride was a joke. Fedor woulda fought DC had Bigfoot not raped him.

You know some fighter peak earlier? You get plenty of sportsmen that are shot by 31... especially someone who got crushes by a truck then crushed by 360lbs prime Sapp! Not surprised Nog didn’t age well.

He entered UFC as a walking corpse, I’ve seen extras on the walking dead looking more agile than him.

It’s more a credit to the man that he plodded forwards taking a beating to impose his game and take the UFC title.

Bit of respect for a great?

 

[MartinGibson86]

You know some fighter peak earlier? You get plenty of sportsmen that are shot by 31... especially someone who got crushes by a truck then crushed by 360lbs prime Sapp! Not surprised Nog didn’t age well.

He entered UFC as a walking corpse, I’ve seen extras on the walking dead looking more agile than him.

It’s more a credit to the man that he plodded forwards taking a beating to impose his game and take the UFC title.

Bit of respect for a great?

Blah blah blah...
"earlier peaks"

Pride was a joke.

Cejudo is older than Nog and CroCop were when they came to the UFC. He's a friggin double champ in the fastest-paced weights.

GTFO here lol

Pride was a farce.

 

[Rudeboyben84]

Blah blah blah...
"earlier peaks"

Pride was a joke.

Cejudo is older than Nog and CroCop were when they came to the UFC. He's a friggin double champ in the fastest-paced weights.

GTFO here lol

Pride was a farce.

I didn’t mention pride... do you hate everyone who fought in it or what?

Shogun, Nog, Rampage all took UFC titles.

Who cares about labelling fighters “pride fighters” or “UFC fighters” why so hung up on it?

How can you not see fighters primes come at different times and last different lengths? It’s universal across combat sport.

Holyfield and Hopkins were both kicking ass in boxing at near 50, should we expect this of every fighter? Hendo and Couture had good wins at the wrong side of 40.

 

[seanb1979]

5-6 in the UFC.

31 when he joined.

Pride was a joke. Fedor woulda fought DC had Bigfoot not raped him.

Big Nog almost had his neck broken by a 350lb Bob Sapp and he still beat some of the best guys.

 

[MartinGibson86]

Big Nog almost had his neck broken by a 350lb Bob Sapp and he still beat some of the best guys.

Ok.

 

[sylvalant]

5-6 in the UFC.

31 when he joined.
.

PRIDE fanboys have an excuse for that. They have an excuse for every one of their fighters who moved to the UFC.

CroCop was 6 years into his MMA career and 32 years old when he got KOed by Gonzaga. He had just defeated Josh Barnett and Wanderlei to win the PRIDE open weight grand prix prior to that. He got a warm up fight in the UFC before fighting Gonzaga.

I'm sure there's an excuse for this too.

 

[Hirashin]

Hell no. DC vs Cormier 2 was a really bad fight from technical point of view. Both fought extremely unintelligent. It looke like ufc 25 fight.

 

[gono btw]

PRIDE fanboys have an excuse for that. They have an excuse for every one of their fighters who moved to the UFC.

CroCop was 6 years into his MMA career and 32 years old when he got KOed by Gonzaga. He had just defeated Josh Barnett and Wanderlei to win the PRIDE open weight grand prix prior to that. He got a warm up fight in the UFC before fighting Gonzaga.

I'm sure there's an excuse for this too.

All I know is he wasn't remotely competitive
and was nearly decapitated.

I guess the Nog who fought Coleman woulda killed Cain.

It was two fights, let's not get carried away. I'm not gonna argue that he didn't look slower, but people still thought he was gonna be a top contender and while he beat Sylvia, it didn't pan out that way. He was heavy favourite when he came up against Mir:

People can talk on forums all they want, but people put their money on what they really think is going to happen. Both Nog and Cro Cop were supposed to run through UFC contenders and in reality, neither really managed to. Even though people knew they weren't what they once were, they were supposed to be good enough to beat 99% of what the UFC had at the time.

Nog´s Evolution:

This is Nog in Rings:

View attachment 578205View attachment 578209 View attachment 578211

Spoiler: Nog vs Labasanov - Rings

This is Nog in UFO:

View attachment 578233


This is Nog in UFC:

View attachment 578235 View attachment 578215 View attachment 578217


View attachment 578219 View attachment 578223


Bonus: Nog in UFC > Fence or not Fence?

View attachment 578229

 

[sylvalant]

Nog´s Evolution:

Showing his best moments against subpar competition and then comparing them with his not so good moments against stronger competition doesn't really prove anything. He was still top 2 in PRIDE prior to the merger. Fedor> Nog> Cro Cop.

 

[DayV]

PRIDE fanboys have an excuse for that. They have an excuse for every one of their fighters who moved to the UFC.

CroCop was 6 years into his MMA career and 32 years old when he got KOed by Gonzaga. He had just defeated Josh Barnett and Wanderlei to win the PRIDE open weight grand prix prior to that. He got a warm up fight in the UFC before fighting Gonzaga.

I'm sure there's an excuse for this

PRIDE fanboys have an excuse for that. They have an excuse for every one of their fighters who moved to the UFC.

CroCop was 6 years into his MMA career and 32 years old when he got KOed by Gonzaga. He had just defeated Josh Barnett and Wanderlei to win the PRIDE open weight grand prix prior to that. He got a warm up fight in the UFC before fighting Gonzaga.

I'm sure there's an excuse for this too.

They are mostly completely objective. Cro Cop had over 50 pro fights by then and UFC rules and cage are the worst for his style. He did not fight a single fight in the ring and PRIDE rules in which he made his success in UFC.

Put Jones in PRIDE and you will get the same result. He would become much weaker overnight and lose fights in the ring where in smaller square shaped space with 4 corners he loses his reach, range and movement andvantage and suddenly becomes much more hittable, and where he loses his elbows that suddenly become forbidden by rules and is left just with his weak boxing. Or put him in the RINGS organisation where on top of that ground and pound to the head is entirely forbidden, and there is almost no scoring for wrestling contoll, and Jones would be nowhere as good as in America.

So rules also play a big part, Cro Cop in UFC did not fight a single fight in ring and rules in which he made his success.

 

[gono btw]

Showing his best moments against subpar competition and then comparing them with his not so good moments against stronger competition doesn't really prove anything. He was still top 3 in PRIDE prior to the merger.

1st of all, ya dont armbar 1/4 of RTT jus´like that. Understand this.

2nd: in a specific fight configuration like Rings, for instance, some fighters, lower competition or not, are harder to outgrapple. Do ya know these dudes?

3rd: ya claim that they were limited opponents. Can ya tell me the name of the Japanese fighter, for instance?

Finally, if ya can´t see the qualitative (d)evolution in these transitions on the ground,for instance, it´s pretty alarmin´, my friend.

 

[Lucille]

UFC

Prime Fedor would have absolutely destroyed Stipe, Cormier, Ngannou, and Jones. People who don't realize this, haven't seen all of Fedor's matches in his prime. He was way more powerful and way quicker than any of these guys.

Prime fedor never fought heavy hitters like d.c , stipe etc. Ffs fujita had fedor rocked

 

[sylvalant]

1st of all, ya dont armbar 1/4 of RTT jus´like that. Understand this.

2nd: in a specific fight configuration like Rings, for instance, some fighters, lower competition or not, are harder to outgrapple. Do ya know these dudes?

3rd: ya claim that they were limited opponents. Can ya tell me the name of the Japanese fighter, for instance?

Finally, if ya can´t see the qualitative (d)evolution in these transitions on the ground, it´s pretty alarmin´, my friend.

1. Which GIF are you talking about. Did not bother flipping all of them.

2. Being harder to outgrapple goes both ways. Not like his opponents aren't affected by the fight configuration

3. I believe you're talking about Sanae Kikuta, a can by today's UFC standards whose wins are against other cans.

Finally, if ya can´t see the qualitative (d)evolution in these transitions on the ground, it´s pretty alarmin´, my friend.

Again, few gifs don't prove anything. Fighters can have brilliant moments and mistakes within the span of one fight, let alone several years at an organization. Their skill level aren't defined solely by those mistakes. Also success in executing those transitions is dependant on the level of his opposition. If he's tired, beat up, he obviously isn't going to be as sharp as when he's fresh and unscathed.

 

[gono btw]

Which GIF are you talking about. Did not bother flipping all of them.

2. Being harder to outgrapple goes both ways. Not like his opponents aren't affected by the fight configuration

3. I believe you're talking about Sanae Kikuta, a can by today's UFC standards whose wins are against other cans.




Again, few gifs don't prove anything. Fighters can have good and bad moments within the span one fight, let alone several years at an organization. His success in executing those transitions is dependant on his opposition.

the gifs in my 1st answer, dude.

> "a can by today's UFC standards whose wins are against other cans."
Ya dont know what ya´re talkin´about, my friend. Grappling-wise, he was pretty legit, which explains the gif I chose.
Meanwhile, it´s pretty safe 2 say that ya didnt watch his fight vs Nog, and dont know what happened in that fight, wont ya agree, mate?

> "Being harder to outgrapple goes both ways. Not like his opponents aren't affected by the fight configuration"
Do ya understand how much harder it was to set the armbar up (for instance) in a fight configuration like Rings´?
Do ya even Rings, mate?

 

[boss429]

Yeah I bet. Big nog fooled my by getting out kick-boxed badly by Frank MIR, only to go on and have his arm snapped. Those dang special effects.

Ummm.... Didn't he get his arm snapped after dropping Mir, GnPing him too the point the ref was about to step in before inexplicably stopping to switch to a sub attempt?

 

[sylvalant]

the gifs in my 1st answer dude.

You posted a whole bunch. You afraid I'd counter your argument if you pointed to the specific gif in question? I won't. But I'd still like to know.

Edit: Made a mistake earlier and remembered his fight order wrong. Deleted that part.

> "Being harder to outgrapple goes both ways. Not like his opponents aren't affected by the fight configuration"
Do ya understand how much harder it was to set the armbar up (for instance) in a fight configuration like Rings´?
Do ya even Rings, mate?

Helps that he was fighting subpar competition.

I'd like to bring your attention back to this, which is my main criticism of you trying to use a few gifs to prove his decline.

Again, few gifs don't prove anything. Fighters can have brilliant moments and mistakes within the span of one fight, let alone several years at an organization. Their skill level aren't defined solely by those mistakes. Also success in executing those transitions is dependant on the level of his opposition. If he's tired, beat up, he obviously isn't going to be as sharp as when he's fresh and unscathed.

 

[gono btw]

You posted a whole bunch. You afraid I'd counter your argument if you clearly pointed to the specific gif in question?



Funny, because that fight was right before his entrance to the UFC.



Helps that he was fighting subpar competition.

I'd like to bring your attention back to this, which is my main criticism of you trying to use a few gifs to prove his decline.

Afraid of what, exactly, mate? What makes ya think that there´s somethin´in your arguments that would make me acknowledge that ya truly know what ya´re talkin´about?

Show me then... What´s your technical assessment of that Nog vs Kiku fight?

Ya said: "Funny, because that fight was right before his entrance to the UFC. "
> that fight was in 2002, mate... See how clueless ya are...


Tell me more: ya claim his opponents in Rings were all subar? Which fights did ya really watch?

 

[Bubblun]

I just wonder why all these crazy Pride nostalgic nuts swingers don't go away.

You don't like mma after Pride, go away, do something else instead of complaining like a whiny bitch every time there is hype about something or your heroes aren't mentioned in every single thread.

Back in the day I remember there were Pride only mma forums or JMMA only forums were the likes of you could jerk off to each other ad libitum.