Going from LHW to HW is different than other weight class shifts

[Rationality]

Other weight classes only differ by 15-20 lbs. When you go from LHW to HW you face guys who weigh in up to 60 lbs more than the LHW weigh-in limit. Weight cutting muddies everything, but it's different going up and fighting guys up to 60 lbs heavier.
Again, I know about cutting, but the only objective way to discuss this is using weight at weigh-in.

 

[188912345]

Most LHWs are around 220-230 lbs? And most HWs around 245-260 lbs, not many "in-shape" HWs cut weight. A lot of them are bloated LHWs who lack the discipline for dieting and cutting weight.

 

[loisestrad]

Weight. It's a heavy topic (depending on weight).

 

[Doctor Grudge]

it's the opposite. 125 to 135 (and 135 to 125) is much harder than any of the upper weight class switches.

The size difference between a 125 person and 135 person is larger than a 225 person and a 250 pound person. Hence why there are more weight classes at lower weights.

Plenty of fights between natural flyweights and bantamweights are on YouTube, and the difference is jarring.

 

[Rationality]

Most LHWs are around 220-230 lbs? And most HWs around 245-260 lbs, not many "in-shape" HWs cut weight. A lot of them are bloated LHWs who lack the discipline for dieting and cutting weight.

Here on Sherdog people believe that HW is the king of all divisions, the ultimate proving grounds. But you're saying they're mostly "bloated LHWs who lack discipline?"

 

[Red Lantern]

You aren't rational like your username suggest. Weight has historically matters more in lower weight class than in higher weight class in combat sports. There is a point of diminishing return.

Look at boxing. Usyk beat Tyson Fury who is 40 pounds bigger than him, Stipe beat Francis when he weighed 240s and Francis was 260s. You barely see shit like this in lower division, ever.

Same thing in wrestling. There's a lot of smaller Heavyweights beating the ultra heavyweight guys.

Here on Sherdog people believe that HW is the king of all divisions, the ultimate proving grounds. But you're saying they're mostly "bloated LHWs who lack discipline?"

People shit on Heavyweights all the time here dude. @Pechan made a funny thread about it. You are just making shit up.

The current HW division is embarrassing

Just tuned in to tonight's fights and I see two fat asses with barely any technique and they are both ranked, and they are not even an anomaly, that's like 90% of the division, if there isn't a finish in the first few mins these HW fights are disgusting to watch, really sad what has happened to...

forums.sherdog.com

 

[Rationality]

it's the opposite. 125 to 135 is much harder than any of the upper weight class switches.

The size difference between a 125 person and 135 person is larger than a 225 person and a 250 pound person. Hence why there are more weight classes at lower weights.

Plenty of fights between natural flyweights and bantamweights are on YouTube, and the difference is jarring.

For sure there are individual examples like what you've said in every weight class but nothing compares to Stefan Struve and Pat Barry.
Weight cuts and body types are all over the map. I was proposing to discuss this using division weigh-in limits not straw man arguments.
But it's a free country here on the 'dog

 

[188912345]

Here on Sherdog people believe that HW is the king of all divisions, the ultimate proving grounds. But you're saying they're mostly "bloated LHWs who lack discipline?"

I said a lot of them are people who with a similar body fat percentage to the lower weight classes would easily make LHW. Take DC for example, even though he's retired.

I obviously didn't say ALL of them. Someone like Ngannou is an outlier (ripped guy who some fights cut to 265 lbs).

We don't see a lot of 6-packs at HW.

It's also way more logical to compare the weights at fight night, than at weigh in, when comparing LHW to HW.

Only reason you wouldn't is because you want to increase the weight difference even more. Way fewer HWs cut weight, and those who cut don't cut as much as LHWs.

 

[sanguinius]

Here on Sherdog people believe that HW is the king of all divisions, the ultimate proving grounds. But you're saying they're mostly "bloated LHWs who lack discipline?"

he might be a different person than the people that say things that he isn't saying.

 

[Rationality]

You aren't rational like your username suggest. Weight has historically matters more in lower weight class than in higher weight class in combat sports. There is a point of diminishing return.

Look at boxing. Usyk beat Tyson Fury who is 40 pounds bigger than him, Stipe beat Francis when he weighed 240s and Francis was 260s. You barely see shit like this in lower division, ever.

Same thing in wrestling. There's a lot of smaller Heavyweights beating the ultra heavyweight guys.


People shit on Heavyweights all the time here dude. @Pechan made a funny thread about it. You are just making shit up.

The current HW division is embarrassing

Just tuned in to tonight's fights and I see two fat asses with barely any technique and they are both ranked, and they are not even an anomaly, that's like 90% of the division, if there isn't a finish in the first few mins these HW fights are disgusting to watch, really sad what has happened to...

forums.sherdog.com

School is in session now.
Your mistake is not differentiaing the number of elite fighters in each weight class.
The reason why it's tougher to fight up a weight class at the lower weights is because there are far more fighters competing in those weight classes so it's more competitive and there is more elite level talent.
There are far fewer people born into this world who compete athletically at a HW size making fewer elite HWs.
However fighting someone who is elite who weighs 60 lbs more than you is an enormous task regardless of weight class.

 

[orca]

you guys remember gsp waited for years and years for a 15 lb jump at MW?
to fight a 1 eyed guy

45 lbs is 3x 15 lbs
lmfao thats already a massive weight
anyone here try to gain that weight even if you dont fight
and come back again if you believe im wrong

ofcourse its very different

 

[Rationality]

you guys remember gsp waited for years and years for a 15 lb jump at MW?
to fight a 1 eyed guy

45 lbs is 3x 15 lbs
lmfao thats already a massive weight
anyone here try to gain that weight even if you dont fight
and come back again if you believe im wrong

ofcourse its very different

Yep.

 

[Doctor Grudge]

you guys remember gsp waited for years and years for a 15 lb jump at MW?
to fight a 1 eyed guy

45 lbs is 3x 15 lbs
lmfao thats already a massive weight

That's not how fighting or weight loss works. The heavier you are the easier it is to burn calories. Also, heavyweights do not need to care about being all muscle, a higher percentage of their bodyweight can be fat which is quicker to gain than muscle.

It is significantly more difficult for a 135 pound person to lose 10 pounds than a 265 pound person (and most heavyweights who are 265 pounds have a ton of fat). 10 pounds is a higher % of your bodyweight when you are 135 pounds (double). And again, ideally, this needs to be "all muscle" unlike a HW.



170 to 185 is one of the harder jumps and GSP was already retired. There is a reason why a lot of 205-220 pound fighters have had success in HW.

I mean the proof is in the pudding here...if 205 to HW was harder there would be way less successful 205ers moving up (it's the easiest divisions to be a double champion in). Meanwhile, look at what happened to TJ Dillashaw when he went to 125. Like literally pull up a picture of him, he looks like he's going to die at flyweight, and he is a small bantamweight.

 

[NoSmilez]

I think it's one of the easiest changes. When you are a LHW then most likely you are working with HWs who don't diet.

 

[188912345]

you guys remember gsp waited for years and years for a 15 lb jump at MW?
to fight a 1 eyed guy

45 lbs is 3x 15 lbs
lmfao thats already a massive weight
anyone here try to gain that weight even if you dont fight
and come back again if you believe im wrong

ofcourse its very different

Why would someone absolutely have to gain 45 lbs to go from LHW to HW?
Let's say Jones (225ish at LHW), he didn't gain 45 lbs. A lot of the best HWs have been around 240-255ish.

If Alex Pereira goes up, he's not taking years off to gain 25 lbs, he would fight at around 10-15 lbs heavier than at LHW.

 

[orca]

That's not how fighting or weight loss works. The heavier you are the easier it is to burn calories. Also, heavyweights do not need to care about being all muscle, a higher percentage of their bodyweight can be fat which is quicker to gain than muscle.

It is significantly more difficult for a 135 pound person to lose 10 pounds than a 265 pound person (and most heavyweights who are 265 pounds have a ton of fat). 10 pounds is a higher % of your bodyweight when you are 135 pounds.

170 to 185 is one of the harder jumps and GSP was already retired. There is a reason why a lot of 205-220 pound fighters have had success in HW.

yes we all know its difficult to lose weight if your small

we are talking about gaining weight for fighting

45 lbs will always be bigger than 15 lbs of a jump
no matter what aliby you may think

 

[orca]

Why would someone absolutely have to gain 45 lbs to go from LHW to HW?
Let's say Jones (225ish at LHW), he didn't gain 45 lbs. A lot of the best HWs have been around 240-255ish.

If Alex Pereira goes up, he's not taking years off to gain 25 lbs, he would fight at around 10-15 lbs heavier than at LHW.

because ts said guys like gsp only need 15 lbs from WW to MW for example

im just trying to explain that jones is fighting natural HWs who weight 240 - 260 lbs
and thats alot

thats a massive jump

he even drank water just to weight 240 lbs

 

[Rationality]

yes we all know its difficult to lose weight if your small

we are talking about gaining weight for fighting

45 lbs will always be bigger than 15 lbs of a jump
no matter what aliby you may think

One of these guys just said all you have to do is get fatter lol.

 

[Rationality]

Easier to get fat than to lose weight

Khabib the next HW champ CONFIRMED.

 

[188912345]

because ts said guys like gsp only need 15 lbs from WW to MW for example

im just trying to explain that jones is fighting natural HWs who weight 240 - 260 lbs
and thats alot

thats a massive jump

he even drank water just to weight 240 lbs

Jon made 248 lbs vs Gane.
He was around 225ish at LHW, probably 230+ out of camp.

I don't see where the 45 lbs comes from.