GNP vs ALL

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eaglewrestler27

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1.Would a good GNP person nullify most good subs pulled from guard?

2. How necessary is it to pass guard, in order to GNP successfully? (think Kerr and Fedor)

3. Throws instead of shots to GNP: Name a few, or feelings on them.

4. Name your favorite GNP fighter, one of their great fights, and why.

Discuss
 
do some searches, watch some videos.

make your own oppinions, as all you'll get in replies are oppinions.
 
eaglewrestler27 said:
1.Would a good GNP person nullify most good subs pulled from guard?

2. How necessary is it to pass guard, in order to GNP successfully? (think Kerr and Fedor)

3. Throws instead of shots to GNP: Name a few, or feelings on them.

4. Name your favorite GNP fighter, one of their great fights, and why.

Discuss
Click to expand...

1. yep. hard to concentrate on a sub when you are contstantly getting tagged.

2. depends on how you strike. fedor punches with fully extended strikes, therefor he can stay in the guard and cause damage. kerr likes the hammerstrike, but to do that, you need to be in sidemount or split guard.

3. not too sure about the question. are you talking about for setups?

4. don frye. his fight with bitteti is legendary and showed how much damage you can do even in a closed guard.
 
toehold_delight said:
3. not too sure about the question. are you talking about for setups?.
Click to expand...

Setups, and good throws that put you in position for the GNP. I'm tired of all the double legs.
 
I guess Kerr is pretty fun to watch GNP. I just recieved the Smashing Machine in the mail today after waiting about 5 days for it to arrive (via Best Buy's online store). He was awesome.

Fedor seems to have some pretty good throws ie his judo skills and what not.
 
Coleman was considered a good gnp'er and got subbed. Fedor didn't.
 
kid yamamoto..........best GNP! p4p.
 
1. The GNP skill of a fighter is IMO more related to his base, sense of balance and knowledge of submission defense than how hard he punches. Fedor is not a good GNP
 
Darwinist said:
1. The GNP skill of a fighter is IMO more related to his base, sense of balance and knowledge of submission defense than how hard he punches. Fedor is not a good GNP
Click to expand...
 
eaglewrestler27 said:
1.Would a good GNP person nullify most good subs pulled from guard?

2. How necessary is it to pass guard, in order to GNP successfully? (think Kerr and Fedor)

3. Throws instead of shots to GNP: Name a few, or feelings on them.

4. Name your favorite GNP fighter, one of their great fights, and why.

Discuss
Click to expand...
Well, since there's no martial art called 'Ground and Pound', I'm inclined to believe one must be good at some sort of grappling art - be it wrestling, jiu jitsu, whatever - to successfully GnP. Therefore, being subbed from the guard is less likely, because they know what to expect.
 
Darwinist that was a very informative post. This thread was mainly started to help guage my training. Obviously I want to become great at GNP, as I feel it is a skill like you stated.
Here's my dilema:
I have 5 years wrestling experience, and about 1.5 in muay thai. I want the mt knees for side mount and punches for full guard. I need to be able to shut down subs as you stated. So I'm tryin to decide how to dedicate my training to this.
1. I don't want to be a bjj sub master just know how to avoid them.
2. And I'm interested in judo instead of just wrestling, but need to spend my time on the most useful for the above, and already have some wrestling experience.

So basicly trying to figure out how to balance the above mentioned with good balance.
Thanks
 
If you have 5 years wrestling and 1.5 years MT and nothing else you should focus on keeping the fight standing and going for the KO standing unless you're fighting a good standup guy where you take the fight to the ground and don't have to worry about sub skills as much.
1. You need to know how to do subs to avoid them, you avoid them by knowing the setups and getting out of the way before the sub is locked, you can't learn that just by learning defenses.
2. Judo would definitely be better than wrestling for shutting down subs, but BJJ would probably be better.
 
migo said:
1. You need to know how to do subs to avoid them, you avoid them by knowing the setups and getting out of the way before the sub is locked, you can't learn that just by learning defenses.
2. Judo would definitely be better than wrestling for shutting down subs, but BJJ would probably be better.
Click to expand...

I agree with this post completely. If you just do sub defense, like Coleman for instance, you can maybe beat a bunch of people down - but you
 
1) avoiding subs has nothing to do with how good your gnp is you can hit like a freight train but if your sub defense sucks you're bound to get caught in something

2) you need to pass guard to avoid the subs/sweeps ... most people are not fedor or kerr and therefore can't do serious damage from the guard while avoiding sub attempts from a good grappler (fedors sub defense is world class you can't compare yourself to someone like him)

3) not sure what you mean here

4) randy couture (vs pedro rizzo fight) he just showed extremely good ground control that fight while relentlessly gnp him as he always does ... although i think pedro should've won that decision
 
Well thanks for the info guys it was exactly what I was looking for. So I'm left with these questions.

1. I plan to be great at the clinch since I am shorter 5'7 and stocky 170lbs but fairly strong. I don't have the height to out strike tall lanky great strikes. SO I want to be great at the clinch to control where the fight goes. For example: keep it standing against grapplers, Takedown strikers, and GNP both if on the ground.

2. What would be ideal for this compliment to muay thai and the above mentioned? I feel judo might work well from the clinch and help w/ position and basic subs. BUT then again BJJ would be pure subs, and obviously up my defense on them w/ a good knowledge on how they work. The final is just more wrestling: sprawls, takedowns and ground control.

3. I understand that knowledge in all areas is beneficial, but I want/need to be great in a few and lets face it time is limited so I'm trying to decide on a good focus for me.

4. SCHOOL OPTIONS:
Dean lister bjj w/ leg locks and obviously his style, some good sub defense as the result.
Fabio Santos GI bjj, IMO on of the best but it is GI and my goals are MMA.
Navy's Judo in Coronado, CA Gi of course, some judo throws, basic subs, judo stuff.
More Wrestling
***Some occasional training and sparring w/ Gokor in MMA regardless of other school choice. Problem is though its in LA so training will be limited but still frequent.*****

5. Any other advice or ideas are appreciated

Thanks again to migo and Darwinist especially. Also to anyone who contributes to this thread. Keep the advice, ideas even criticism coming. Any thing that will make me a better MMArtist I'm open to.
 
I'm assuming with Lister BJJ you mean City Boxing? I don't think you could go wrong with that.
 
No he's actually w/ the boxing club now (melchor menor) where I train MT. Also he has his own place in Chula Vista called lister training center. But Fabio is the one who taught Dean.

But anyways I'm still looking for answers to Question #2 with regardes to #1 & #3. I only gave out the different schools available in my area to show the different levels of instruction I would receive.

So please thoughts on question 2 with regards to 1 & 3.
 
eaglewrestler27 said:
No he's actually w/ the boxing club now (melchor menor) where I train MT. Also he has his own place in Chula Vista called lister training center. But Fabio is the one who taught Dean.

But anyways I'm still looking for answers to Question #2 with regardes to #1 & #3. I only gave out the different schools available in my area to show the different levels of instruction I would receive.

So please thoughts on question 2 with regards to 1 & 3.
Click to expand...

Yes, stick to judo. Basic subs is all there is in mma. The main thing bjj has over judo is the principle of patience down there. Invaluable. Lack of patience is how most judoka get subbed. Keep that in mind.
 
I always figured you could neutralise a lot of GNP if you were to break their posture, is that true ?
 
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