Social Gender ideology is dying, common sense prevailing

[Ares Black]

If we stop giving tax breaks, public grants, etc to churches, then I think this is a strong take.

^^^^^^^^^ This guy gets it

 

[UberHere]

Gender dysphoria is not a synonym for being transgender


There are many trans people who never experienced gender dysphoria

Blah blah blah blah

You lose

 

[Ares Black]

Blah blah blah blah

You lose

Except that I'm right, and you are wrong

Science Fact or Science Fiction: Is Gender Nonconformity a Mental Disorder? - CIHR

...

cihr-irsc.gc.ca

A study made in Mexico proves that the transgender is a condition, not a mental disease

In the study, participated researchers from Mexico´s National Institute of Psychiatry, the Specialized Clinic Condesa and Mexico´s National Autonomous University (UNAM).

www.gob.mx

https://www.apa.org/topics/lgbtq/transgender-people-gender-identity-gender-expression

Being transgender no longer classified as mental illness. Here's why

Gender incongruence is now classified as a sexual health condition, not a mental illness.

www.usatoday.com

 

[Soggust]

NOPE... there is a stark difference between those two also. This isn't the pre-enlightenent years Your attempts to lump American christianity in with something else has failed.

Ask the trans SUPPORTERS of this person.

What we know about the Nashville Christian school shooting that left 6 dead

Here's some of what we know and don't know about the deadly shooting at The Covenant School in Nashville.

www.pbs.org

Is this where I'm supposed to start posting articles of pastors raping kids?

I racked up more time in church, bible camps, and youth functions than 98% of Americans that have ever or will ever exist and I never believed that. Talked to many other that didn't believe that. When to a baptist church for years that never preached that. For the people that actually believe that? Its not like it's harmed anyone.

Not sure what to say about that. Pretty sure it was just a misinterpretation passed down. For the people that actually believe that? Its not like it's harmed anyone.

Not sure. All I know is that Islam is basically a hijacked bogus off shoot of an Abrahamic religion. Ya might have to go to the middle east and ask them. See how well that goes for you. The result would quickly remind you how much muslims and christians are not on the same realm of ideology.

I addressed this broadly above, but again - we're not offering trans folks the same benefit of the doubt that you are extending to religious people when you begin justifying the fables and I don't want to back you into a corner defending them.

Certainly, however, you would agree that a trans person who says - "No, I was definitely born a man, no delusion whatsoever. I just love wearing dresses and presenting as a girl and it makes me happy so I choose to live my life this way" is likewise not mentally ill by default, right?

 

[evansusmc2]

Is this where I'm supposed to start posting articles of pastors raping kids?

Here's the difference........ NOT ONE Christian is gonna go online via facebook/twitter etc etc and cheer it on or defend a pastor.

Oh and this shit has been cracked down on. When's the last time you heard of such incident??

I addressed this broadly above, but again - we're not offering trans folks the same benefit of the doubt that you are extending to religious people when you begin justifying the fables and I don't want to back you into a corner defending them.

Certainly, however, you would agree that a trans person who says - "No, I was definitely born a man, no delusion whatsoever. I just love wearing dresses and presenting as a girl and it makes me happy so I choose to live my life this way" is likewise not mentally ill by default, right?

If it was JUST wearing dresses... who cares?? But this isn't pre-1980s anymore. These weirdos want to get into women's restrooms, invade women's sports, and make the US military an experiment/liability.

 

[Soggust]

Here's the difference........ NOT ONE Christian is gonna go online via facebook/twitter etc etc and cheer it on or defend a pastor.

Oh and this shit has been cracked down on. When's the last time you heard of such incident??

3 days ago?

Pastor arrested in US for alleged abuse banned from working with children

Former Adelaide megachurch pastor Daniel Menelaou, who was last week charged in the US with possession of child sexual abuse material, has been banned from working with children in SA.

www.abc.net.au

If it was JUST wearing dresses... who cares?? But this isn't pre-1980s anymore. These weirdos want to get into women's restrooms, invade women's sports, and make the US military an experiment/liability.

And when it comes to sports, I think they are wrong just like the retards trying to push the ten commandments in school. I think organizations (e.g. NCAA) should be able to separate by bio sex, otherwise why have male/female divisions at all?

When it comes to bathrooms, my understanding is there is no evidence that transwomen in women's bathrooms leads to more rapes but there is evidence transwomen in men's restrooms does. Therefore, in my mind, if we are trying to reduce rapes, you have people go where they present.

US Military idk but cosmetic rules should be the same for a girl getting fake tits or whatever imo. Like, I think I could be convinced that we shouldn't spend military dollars on elective surgery period.

But regardless, it doesn't make sense imo to villainize the whole community over these issues.

 

[Deleted member 577981]

3 days ago?

first


And when it comes to sports, I think they are wrong just like the retards trying to push the ten commandments in school. I think organizations (e.g. NCAA) should be able to separate by bio sex, otherwise why have male/female divisions at all?

When it comes to bathrooms, my understanding is there is no evidence that transwomen in women's bathrooms leads to more rapes but there is evidence transwomen in men's restrooms does. Therefore, in my mind, if we are trying to reduce rapes, you have people go where they present.

US Military idk but cosmetic rules should be the same for a girl getting fake tits or whatever imo. Like, I think I could be convinced that we shouldn't spend military dollars on elective surgery period.

But regardless, it doesn't make sense imo to villainize the whole community over these issues.

I have an argument against the bathrooms I would like you to consider. reporting on rape by transgender people is problematic. it is unlikely that the fact that a person is trans will go into official reports and there is also not a standardized way to do that so studies on the dangers of trans people in restrooms need way more work and investigating. people who have looked deeper have found trans stuff that went unreported. Kathleen Stock speaks about this reporting problem that occurs too. but I don't have that data and don't expect you to believe it and my argument doesn't really rest upon this anyway.

my main position on bathrooms, changing rooms, shelters and prisons etc is this. it is men who are violent. not every man is violent but between men and women it is the men who commit by far the most violence against other men and against women. for this reason it is unconscionable to me to offgass a male pattern violence problem onto women by putting men into women's restrooms. just because a person is trans does not in any way take them out of the statistics for male pattern violence. men having a violence problem against men is a real problem but I do not think its a problem that ought to be dumped onto women. it is not that I think trans people are more likely to commit violence or sexual assault.... but men are more likely and so men cannot go into women's restrooms among women and among young girls.

it will lead to more violence for certain because men are statistically more likely to be violent than women and many bathrooms present an opportunity for violence and vulnerability.

but also I have listened to a lot of panels from women in Europe on this topic and what women say is that they use restrooms for a lot more than just using the restroom... for one thing they use restrooms to get away from men who are bothering them, and they use women's restrooms to have informal meetings with women, and they use women's restrooms to get away from the public when they need a break and they use restrooms to change tampons and other feminine activities and the panels I've listened to say that they just absolutely do not want men intruding on those private spaces because people don't realize how differently women act around men and how when there's a man in the room it changes the dynamics completely so it's a lot more than just safety it's also about psychological comfort and emotional comfort for women to have a place to go alone away from men.

And let's not forget how hard women had to fight to get their own restrooms it's not as if they were just given to them. in the beginning women's rights activists had to fight hard to get private spaces where they were not harassed by men in restrooms. If we open up restrooms to trans men and the men don't have to pass as women it's the same as saying you're opening up restrooms to men again and women's rights will have taken a major hit.

So on the one hand we are told that this is a major problem that has to be dealt with... and it is a problem I think we need to deal with as a society... but on the other hand we're told we can't fund third spaces and so the solution is to dump the entire problem onto women to deal with. once women see it this way... once its framed like this... they often change their minds about supporting trans people in this way.

I personally believe the push to put men into women's restrooms, sports team, changing rooms, prisons etc is just lazy and its an unwillingness to fund an actual solution which is third spaces... and single-use restrooms. I would absolutely support any legislation that raised taxes, or a gas tax, or a sin tax, or anything you could think of to fund third spaces, it's not that I don't want a solution I just want a solution that's best for everyone involved and that doesn't force certain communities to compromise their rights to accommodate others.

 

[evansusmc2]

3 days ago?

Pastor arrested in US for alleged abuse banned from working with children

Former Adelaide megachurch pastor Daniel Menelaou, who was last week charged in the US with possession of child sexual abuse material, has been banned from working with children in SA.

www.abc.net.au

Still a pittance compared to what the trannies have caused in the past few years. Also... Surprising and I hope that dude gets his in JAIL. <--- see how that works? No one cheering or defend this dude.

And when it comes to sports, I think they are wrong just like the retards trying to push the ten commandments in school.

Teaching/reminding people thou shalt not steal etc etc... VS. women getting injured by dorks that want to invade their sports. Yeah.... there are levels to this. Get that false equivalency out of here.

I think organizations (e.g. NCAA) should be able to separate by bio sex, otherwise why have male/female divisions at all?

They do have male/female divisions. But some kind of hiccup happened along the way that is getting fixed as we speak.

When it comes to bathrooms, my understanding is there is no evidence that transwomen in women's bathrooms leads to more rapes but there is evidence transwomen in men's restrooms does. Therefore, in my mind, if we are trying to reduce rapes, you have people go where they present.

No excuses, keyboard dancing and no giving those fakers an inch. Just stop the nonsense. Or talk to real men that have a daughter or two face to face about what they think. See how they look at you when you try to disagree.

US Military idk but cosmetic rules should be the same for a girl getting fake tits or whatever imo. Like, I think I could be convinced that we shouldn't spend military dollars on elective surgery period.

The amount of elective fake tit surgeries I have heard of from the years I was in (1998-2019) was like ONE. The amount of money spent on drugs and other crap for confused dudes in the past couple years has been crazy. No comparison.

But regardless, it doesn't make sense imo to villainize the whole community over these issues.

OH... they villainize themselves proudly as much as they can on a daily basis. Look at all the praise those killers/tranny cult got online before/after they got caught.

 

[Hog-train]

I'm friends with a Thai ladyboy and this is no surprise. They're so far ahead of the curve on trans issues it's not funny. There's a reason most Thai ladyboy don't get bottom surgery.

They are just very feminine gay men, so feminine they'd rather live as a girl.

I think most ladyboys get hormones and some get their adam's apple shaved.

 

[Soggust]

I have an argument against the bathrooms I would like you to consider. reporting on rape by transgender people is problematic. it is unlikely that the fact that a person is trans will go into official reports and there is also not a standardized way to do that so studies on the dangers of trans people in restrooms need way more work and investigating. people who have looked deeper have found trans stuff that went unreported. Kathleen Stock speaks about this reporting problem that occurs too. but I don't have that data and don't expect you to believe it and my argument doesn't really rest upon this anyway.

my main position on bathrooms, changing rooms, shelters and prisons etc is this. it is men who are violent. not every man is violent but between men and women it is the men who commit by far the most violence against other men and against women. for this reason it is unconscionable to me to offgass a male pattern violence problem onto women by putting men into women's restrooms. just because a person is trans does not in any way take them out of the statistics for male pattern violence. men having a violence problem against men is a real problem but I do not think its a problem that ought to be dumped onto women. it is not that I think trans people are more likely to commit violence or sexual assault.... but men are more likely and so men cannot go into women's restrooms among women and among young girls.

it will lead to more violence for certain because men are statistically more likely to be violent than women and many bathrooms present an opportunity for violence and vulnerability.

but also I have listened to a lot of panels from women in Europe on this topic and what women say is that they use restrooms for a lot more than just using the restroom... for one thing they use restrooms to get away from men who are bothering them, and they use women's restrooms to have informal meetings with women, and they use women's restrooms to get away from the public when they need a break and they use restrooms to change tampons and other feminine activities and the panels I've listened to say that they just absolutely do not want men intruding on those private spaces because people don't realize how differently women act around men and how when there's a man in the room it changes the dynamics completely so it's a lot more than just safety it's also about psychological comfort and emotional comfort for women to have a place to go alone away from men.

And let's not forget how hard women had to fight to get their own restrooms it's not as if they were just given to them. in the beginning women's rights activists had to fight hard to get private spaces where they were not harassed by men in restrooms. If we open up restrooms to trans men and the men don't have to pass as women it's the same as saying you're opening up restrooms to men again and women's rights will have taken a major hit.

So on the one hand we are told that this is a major problem that has to be dealt with... and it is a problem I think we need to deal with as a society... but on the other hand we're told we can't fund third spaces and so the solution is to dump the entire problem onto women to deal with. once women see it this way... once its framed like this... they often change their minds about supporting trans people in this way.

I personally believe the push to put men into women's restrooms, sports team, changing rooms, prisons etc is just lazy and its an unwillingness to fund an actual solution which is third spaces... and single-use restrooms. I would absolutely support any legislation that raised taxes, or a gas tax, or a sin tax, or anything you could think of to fund third spaces, it's not that I don't want a solution I just want a solution that's best for everyone involved and that doesn't force certain communities to compromise their rights to accommodate others.

If there's a study that supports that it creates more incidents, I could be convinced. But I'm skeptical it allows for more opportunity because any nefarious actor is not going to determine whether or not to rape someone based upon respecting a bathroom sign. If anything, bio sex makes it easier because a bad actor wouldn't even have to pretend to be a woman, he would just pretend to be trans.

Therefore, I believe that bathroom bills only effectively legislate the good faith actors (because rapists gon' rape) and I believe that a transwoman in the men's room is at a higher opportunity risk, for the reasons you mentioned. I don't hate these bills on principle, I hate bathrooms bills because I don't think they really do shit with regards to assaults.

I'm respectfully not super persuaded that someone should be at a higher risk of assault because others want space to chat freely, but I do agree with your proposal for a standard of third spaces, even if a bit utopic.

 

[Soggust]

Still a pittance compared to what the trannies have caused in the past few years. Also... Surprising and I hope that dude gets his in JAIL. <--- see how that works? No one cheering or defend this dude.

Who specifically was cheering on the Nashville murders? Anyone who did is a piece of shit. Simple.

Teaching/reminding people thou shalt not steal etc etc... VS. women getting injured by dorks that want to invade their sports. Yeah.... there are levels to this. Get that false equivalency out of here.

Teaching kids about fuckin your neighbors wife vs teaching kids that it's okay to be whatever you want in this life.

See what I did there?

The amount of elective fake tit surgeries I have heard of from the years I was in (1998-2019) was like ONE. The amount of money spent on drugs and other crap for confused dudes in the past couple years has been crazy. No comparison.

Cool, then you should have no problem with us agreeing that ending elective surgery solves this.

OH... they villainize themselves proudly as much as they can on a daily basis. Look at all the praise those killers/tranny cult got online before/after they got caught.

Your entire argument boils down to some shit you read on the internet and select examples.

But perhaps that's not representative of the entire group just like the pastors aren't.

 

[evansusmc2]

Who specifically was cheering on the Nashville murders? Anyone who did is a piece of shit. Simple.

A MASS amount trans folk and a spattering of lefty supporters. But you already knew that.

Teaching kids about fuckin your neighbors wife vs teaching kids that it's okay to be whatever you want in this life.

That doesn't make any sense.

Cool, then you should have no problem with us agreeing that ending elective surgery solves this.

The confused tranny dorks would go crazy. The real females would be annoyed for 3 seconds.

Your entire argument boils down to some shit you read on the internet and select examples.

WRONG. Reality is still reality.

But perhaps that's not representative of the entire group just like the pastors aren't.

The lefty trans group would be HAPPY to let you know how that DOES represent their group. Can't say the same for ONE christian. See the difference??

This is such low hanging fruit.

 

[Soggust]

A MASS amount trans folk and a spattering of lefty supporters. But you already knew that.

Source?

The lefty trans group would be HAPPY to let you know how that DOES represent their group. Can't say the same for ONE christian. See the difference??

How about Westboro Baptist Church?

 

[Hog-train]

Gender dysphoria is not a synonym for being transgender


There are many trans people who never experienced gender dysphoria

Then they're not really trans.

They're just some stupid nonbinary narcissist with a septum piercing. It's like the new goth - a fashion statement.

 

[Ares Black]

Then they're not really trans.

No, you just don't actually understand what trans means

They're just some stupid nonbinary narcissist with a septum piercing. It's like the new goth - a fashion statement.

No, they still feel like they were born in the wrong body. They just aren't suffering because of it.

Gender dysphoria is largely the result of social factors. Which is precisely why gender-affirming care is such an effective treatment.

 

[Hog-train]

No, you just don't understand what trans means

No, they still feel like they were born in the wrong body. They just aren't suffering because of it.

Gender dysphoria is largely the result of social factors. Which is precisely why gender-affirming care is such an effective treatment.

You communicate in a very pedantic and condescending way acting like you're the only person educated on this subject. I know what trans and gender dysphoria means.

A lot of transgender people would completely disagree with you that you don't need gender dysphoria to be trans. In fact, the transgender people who believe this even have a name - they're called transmedicalists.

Only in like the last few years have all these "nonbinary" people have come out of the woodwork and hijacked the transgender movement. Most of these nonbinary people are a bunch of young girls that are confused and have a whole bunch of other mental illnesses. It's not a surprise that most of the new nonbinary people mostly happen to be young girls and all have similar fashion (dyed colored hair and piercings.) It's a fucking fashion statement.

REAL trans people have always existed, have real dysphoria and they live in the binary.

 

[Ares Black]

You communicate in a very pedantic and condescending way acting like you're the only person educated on this subject. I know what trans and gender dysphoria means.

Apparently not

A lot of transgender people would completely disagree with you that you don't need gender dysphoria to be trans.

Maybe. I'm sure you have talked to lots of trans people about it.

In fact, the transgender people who believe this even have a name - they're called transmedicalists.

Yeah, a minority view within the community.

Only in like the last few years have all these "nonbinary" people have come out of the woodwork and hijacked the transgender movement. Most of these nonbinary people are a bunch of young girls that are confused and have a whole bunch of other mental illnesses. It's not a surprise that most of the new nonbinary people mostly happen to be young girls and all have similar fashion (dyed colored hair and piercings.) It's a fucking fashion statement.

*In your opinion

REAL trans people have always existed,

Agreed

have real dysphoria

Not necessarily

and they live in the binary.

Very few things in the world are binary. Gender is not one of them.


But I suppose we will have to agree to disagree.

 

[Tatra]

Of course I can. Especially if the question was honest.

The problem is that none of you are arguing in good faith.

You're just doing the same thing. You think if you call anything you don't like "dishonest" that means you don't have to respond. Because you know your position is indefensible.

 

[Ares Black]

You're just doing the same thing.

Not true. I am willing to have a good faith discussion about trans rights and gender affirming care any time you want.

You think if you call anything you don't like "dishonest" that means you don't have to respond.

I only call people dishonest if they are saying things that are dishonest.

Because you know your position is indefensible.

Try me.

 

[italiamusica]

Most of the people trying to argue their point in here: "THEY'RE CRAZY AND STUPID AND WEIRD AND GROSS AND I DON'T AGREE WITH THEM."

And? How hard is it to just ignore something that doesn't affect you? Imagine being so mentally crippled that seeing some person on the internet with blue hair fills you with blind rage. That's hilarious

SO many of you try to be the white knight and come in like BUT WHAT ABOUT THE CHILDREN, WE CAN'T AFFECT THEM. Obviously, but it's OK for John Cena to tell a little kid he eats pussy for breakfast? That's not trying to influence kids? It just shows how y'all are just massive hypocrites. NO ONE should be influencing kids.