Gary Goodridge did ok in Pride Fc

[GOATtalks]

You realize that comparing modern records to early UFC days is completely meaningless, right? Back then, youu were thrown in a tournament where you might fight the best current fighter in the 1st round. Now, you may have 10-15 wins in a small org then another 5-7 prelim fights in UFC/Belltar before you even face Top 10 competition. His first 5 losses were to

• Don Frye twice (whom he later beat..Frye was a 2-time UFC tournament winner and one of the best fighters alive at the time--boxing, judo and D1 wrestling experience which was very rare in 1995)
• Mark Shultz (Gold medalist Olympian and maybe the best pure wrestler to ever compete in MMA)
• Mark Coleman (two-time UFC tournament winner and first ever UFC HW champ)
• Mario Neto in a fight where he tapped out due to deyhdration/exhaustion in Brazil. Immediately afterwards he won a 3-fight tournament in Brazil then beat Oleg Taktarov)

No one ever claimed Goodridge was GOAT level, but practically no modern fighters go against that level of competiton (which was elite for mid-1990s standards) in their first 8 fights. Lesnar and BJ Penn are probably the only ones who came even close since the year 2000.

Yeah, he lost to guys with almost no MMA experience and who ( with the same skill set they had then) would lose to anyone in top10 now.

Mark Schultz was 5’10 and weighed 200 pounds. He have WW bigger than that now. And he didn’t even train for the fight

Schultz vs Goodridge was ridiculously low level MMA fight. To compare Goodridge to guys like Lewis or Tai is just absurd

 

[THEfightsAREfixed]

Mods just moved my thread about Fedor to Lightweights, although it had 13 pages of discussion.

If that’s how they do it, this shit shouldn’t be here as well

the only justice we get in this realm is carved from the hearts of our enemies

i recommend a full on anti-mod campaign until you are completely banned but start slow and let it be a slow burn for months and then a giant final dramatic crescendo

atleast thats my take you can do what you want ofc

 

[ryun253]

Goodridge is incredibly overrated.

He’s 12-24-2 as a kick-boxer as well, yet he’s portrayed here as an elite striker. His only 2 good wins are Cyril Abidi and Bernardo, though he lost the rematch.
Yes, he fought a lot of good guys and most of them finished him brutally.

And, he’s overall level of competition is far worse than that of Lewis or Tai. He even lost Mario freakin’ Neto, lol. In his prime by the way

Nostalgia is scary.

 

[Sweater of AV]

Nostalgia is scary.

Anger and ignorance are far, far worse sweetheart

 

[Deleted member 110072]

Theres a difference of course between saying Goodridge could have had a career similar to Lewis in more recent years and saying he had the same MMA achievement as Lewis.

In terms of who he faced a significant factor is that after the win over Bernardo in 02 Goodridge was arguebly more a K-1 fighter than a MMA fighter, in the 5 years after that point really I think his "big" MMA fighters were arguably only Fedor, Frye and Herring but in K-1 in fought JLB x 2, Aerts x2, Bernardo x 2, Remy, Hunt, Iggy, Musashi and Sefo a long with a good few decent mid level guys.

 

[mkt]

Again I do think Goodridge by the turn of the millennium had improved quite a bit, he was never a great grappler but he was significantly better by that point and his stand up was somewhat slickier as well.

As said though I think the point is that Goodridge back then was not considered elite, he's viewed as a minor win for guys like Nog and Fedor and was not a consistant(or perhaps at all?) top 10 fighter were as I think you look at the guys who've often been top 10 in recent years and many of them show similar kinds of skill sets.

In the mid 00's Top 10 at HW meant something, Fedor, Nog, Barnett, Crocop, Sylvia, Arlovski, Sergei, Werdum, Aleks, Hunt were the top 10 at one point and I think all of them really have something to recommend them as elite, someone like Sakai just isnt at that level.

Yeah, my point wasn't that a 40-year old, heavily damaged Goodridge was elite in 2005. I was responding to the idea that a 3-5 record in the mid-90s (his prime) was comparable to a fighter having the same record now. It was completely different then, as you had zero warm-up fights or chances to build your experience/resume in a small org. He was literally thrown to Frye, Schultz, Coleman, etc. immediately. And if you weren't a world-class wrestler yourself, those were extremely tough opponents for that era.

 

[GOATtalks]

Theres a difference of course between saying Goodridge could have had a career similar to Lewis in more recent years and saying he had the same MMA achievement as Lewis.

In terms of who he faced a significant factor is that after the win over Bernardo in 02 Goodridge was arguebly more a K-1 fighter than a MMA fighter, in the 5 years after that point really I think his "big" MMA fighters were arguably only Fedor, Frye and Herring but in K-1 in fought JLB x 2, Aerts x2, Bernardo x 2, Remy, Hunt, Iggy, Musashi and Sefo a long with a good few decent mid level guys.

Lewis is much better than Goodridge ever was. Much more powerful, better timing and even his grappling is on another level compared to Goodridge.

Goodridge fought good opponents and lost to almost all of them. He lost half of his MMA fights and 2/3 of his kickboxing matches. He wasn’t a great fighter whatsoever

 

[Deleted member 110072]

Lewis is much better than Goodridge ever was. Much more powerful, better timing and even his grappling is on another level compared to Goodridge.

Goodridge fought good opponents and lost to almost all of them. He lost half of his MMA fights and 2/3 of his kickboxing matches. He wasn’t a great fighter whatsoever

I think Lewis vs Hunt was very telling personally.

 

[Big Tuppy Hole]

Theres a difference of course between saying Goodridge could have had a career similar to Lewis in more recent years and saying he had the same MMA achievement as Lewis.

In terms of who he faced a significant factor is that after the win over Bernardo in 02 Goodridge was arguebly more a K-1 fighter than a MMA fighter, in the 5 years after that point really I think his "big" MMA fighters were arguably only Fedor, Frye and Herring but in K-1 in fought JLB x 2, Aerts x2, Bernardo x 2, Remy, Hunt, Iggy, Musashi and Sefo a long with a good few decent mid level guys.

Gary was a organic punching bag in K1, he was never a kickboxer.

 

[JarlSkuld]

The fuck is up with all these pat on the backs for old pride guys?

Some people just like living in the past. They just don't feel comfortable in reality. Sadly, it can't be helped.

Jarl

 

[mkt]

Yeah, he lost to guys with almost no MMA experience and who ( with the same skill set they had then) would lose to anyone in top10 now.

Mark Schultz was 5’10 and weighed 200 pounds. He have WW bigger than that now. And he didn’t even train for the fight

Schultz vs Goodridge was ridiculously low level MMA fight. To compare Goodridge to guys like Lewis or Tai is just absurd

This was within the first 3 years of the sport. You're analyzing it from a 2022 perspective which is beyond asinine. In 1996 there were no truly cross-trained athletes like today. Schultz could take down anyone fighting at the time and had rolled with Rickson and done some BJJ training. There were few guys he couldn't hold down and control that night.

To put this in perspective, just 2 years before Goodridge fought, a completely one-dimensional, 170-pound BJJ specialist was beating everyone. Royce would lose to BWs today.

 

[P4p Islam]

Lewis is much better than Goodridge ever was. Much more powerful, better timing and even his grappling is on another level compared to Goodridge.

Goodridge fought good opponents and lost to almost all of them. He lost half of his MMA fights and 2/3 of his kickboxing matches. He wasn’t a great fighter whatsoever

Completely different era and landscape of mma

 

[Deleted member 110072]

Gary was a organic punching bag in K1, he was never a kickboxer.

He wasnt really an elite kickboxer and got put into big fights too often off the back of that one upset over Bernardo and his ability to take punishment but he was definitely legit winning most of his mid/lower level matches before decline set in.

Career wise as I said K-1 was actually his main focus from 02 onwards which explains the lack of bigger MMA fights, he was a K-1 fighter who did MMA on the side not a MMA fighter who did K-1 on the side after that point.

 

[GOATtalks]

I think Lewis vs Hunt was very telling personally.

Telling of what? Hunt beat both Lewis and Goodridge.

I had only 2 takeaways from that:

-Hunt really improved his stamina from Goodridge fight to Lewis
- Goodridge would’ve done much worse in MMA against Hunt than he did in kickboxing. Shelling up wouldn’t work without big gloves and Hunt would’ve been free to knee him in the face when Gary was constantly dipping down

 

[Deleted member 110072]

Telling of what? Hunt beat both Lewis and Goodridge.

I had only 2 takeaways from that:

-Hunt really improved his stamina from Goodridge fight to Lewis
- Goodridge would’ve done much worse in MMA against Hunt than he did in kickboxing. Shelling up wouldn’t work without big gloves and Hunt would’ve been free to knee him in the face when Gary was constantly dipping down

Hunt was a better kickboxer at the age of 43 than he was at the age of 29 18 months after winning the K-1 world GP?

Again I think that fight really shows you Lewis's true level, he's a powerful brawler like Goodridge was, not an elite striker like Hunt, not even a declining Hunt with much less speed and cardio than 2003.

You can argue the exact level of Goodridge and Lewis but I think its hard to ignore what Lewis's sucess says about the modern HW division.

 

[the ambush]

If a person can choose from hundreds of separate threads about Fedor, which there are. One occasional discussion on Goodridge, Telligman, Salaverry, etc should not bother anyone

 

[pankrat]

Theres a difference of course between saying Goodridge could have had a career similar to Lewis in more recent years and saying he had the same MMA achievement as Lewis.

In terms of who he faced a significant factor is that after the win over Bernardo in 02 Goodridge was arguebly more a K-1 fighter than a MMA fighter, in the 5 years after that point really I think his "big" MMA fighters were arguably only Fedor, Frye and Herring but in K-1 in fought JLB x 2, Aerts x2, Bernardo x 2, Remy, Hunt, Iggy, Musashi and Sefo a long with a good few decent mid level guys.

There is no way Gary Goodridge would collect so many wins as Lewis did with the skill-set he had.

A guy as Blagoi Ivanov can easily take him to the ground and beat him there. It would not go to a close dec as with Lewis, it would be a dominant decision if not a submission
Goodridge could find his huckleberry in some matchup but no way he would have the consistency Lewis has had in the last decade.

I was responding to the idea that a 3-5 record in the mid-90s (his prime) was comparable to a fighter having the same record now. It was completely different then, as you had zero warm-up fights or chances to build your experience/resume in a small org. He was literally thrown to Frye, Schultz, Coleman, etc. immediately. And if you weren't a world-class wrestler yourself, those were extremely tough opponents for that era.

Goodridge and just about everybody in that era had extremely tough schedules and match ups often in gross size dissadvantage (not the case for Gary in this sense).
One thing is acknowledging that, and a very different thing is pretending that Goodridge had the same athletic ability and understanding of clinch and ground positions as Lewis...just because both are big black brawlers. It's a simpleton analogy to an almost obscene extent, in my opinion.

 

[Deleted member 110072]

There is no way Gary Goodridge would collect so many wins as Lewis did with the skill-set he had.

A guy as Blagoi Ivanov can easily take him to the ground and beat him there. It would not go to a close dec as with Lewis, it would be a dominant decision if not a submission
Goodridge could find his huckleberry in some matchup but no way he would have the consistency Lewis has had in the last decade.

I'd say Goodridge would probably be easier to get down than Lewis but by the early 00's I think potentially more able to hang in grappling exchanges.

Lewis never had to deal with someone on the level of Nog when it came to grappling threat as indeed a high percentage of modern HW's havent.

Standing I think Goodridge had an edge on Lewis when it came to chin/heart as well, a match actually between them I think that maybe the desiding factor.

 

[pankrat]

I'd say Goodridge would probably be easier to get down than Lewis but by the early 00's I think potentially more able to hang in grappling exchanges.

Lewis never had to deal with someone on the level of Nog when it came to grappling threat as indeed a high percentage of modern HW's havent.

Standing I think Goodridge had an edge on Lewis when it came to chin/heart as well.

Easier to get down and keep down. And to avoid his big punch when trying to do so.

Being both big brawlers, Lewis has more athletic ability/timing to land his big punch on an unskilled striker, and more ability to prevent the TD or get back to his feet if taken down.

If Lewis had to deal with Nog he would probably be submitted, as Gary did. Not sure what that contributes to the debate, honestly. Maybe Lewis would last a bit longer than Gary.

If Gary faced all the wrestler/grapplers Lewis has faced during these years, he would succumb to them way more often than Lewis had.

 

[mkt]

One thing is acknowledging that, and a very different thing is pretending that Goodridge had the same athletic ability and understanding of clinch and ground positions as Lewis...just because both are big black brawlers. It's a simpleton analogy to an almost obscene extent, in my opinion.

Again, this is blatant presentism. There's almost no way Goodridge could've learned modern-day grappling in the mid-90s in the middle of Canada. Put Lewis in Goodridge's shoes and he'd only be a big, strong brawler in 1996 as well. Goodridge was a formidable opponent for almost anyone in the mid 90s. The best fighters beat him, but no one walked out and KO'd or submitted him in 20 seconds (which did happen to some guys back then). Frye's first fight was a pretty quick win, but after that everyone else basically had to outwrestle him to exhaustion.