Gap between BJJ clubs

[rmongler]

Drilling kinda sucks because you are not addressing or identifying your weakness.

lack of muscle memory is a pretty glaring weakness.

 

[Vitamin C]

Preach.

Who needs basics, right?

Bro, berimbolo > closed guard.

Only if you drill at a bad school. Our drilling is nothing like that. We typically choose what we work on, and are encouraged to focus on correcting weaknesses in our A games. At most we'll work on the position that is being taught in class that week, but the moves are up to us. Also, only a percentage of your drilling should be 0% resistance, I'd say we try to do about 40-50% no resistance, 20-30% some resistance, and the rest 100% positional sparring. Much more effective that way.

This works best, I imagine, when your gym is full of guys who are actually invested in their own game.
I've been to open mat scenarios or tech classes that the instructor (usually someone filling in) has said "do what you want," and a majority of guys look around lost or hesitant to actually do whatever they want. Perhaps they fear correction, or I don't even know. Maybe that kind of instruction needs to come from the top more consistently, so it's not so unfamiliar and uncomfortable for some guys.
The other issue is in this environment, the few guys who do have something to drill, the lost belts orbit around them and either try to mimic them or outright request instruction. Now you have 2 or 3 de facto tech classes happening when it should be a drilling session, and the guys who actually had the conviction to drill something they knew in the first place are relegated to teaching for 2/3s of the time...

My gym needs more structure. Paradoxically, it also needs less structure.

 

[Balto]

My gym needs more structure. Paradoxically, it also needs less structure.

This paradox is very true.

Gyms with a set of rules and instructors that smack down students for getting out of line run themselves. The gyms where everyone is a special little snowflake that gets handled with kid gloves turn into a zoo.

The only way for an instructor run a zoo is to have everyone do exactly the same thing all the time. So that is all that happens in the special snowflake schools. Good thing no one's feelings ever get hurt though.

Gyms where the instructor will snap at you for bullshitting during drilling time and then smash your face in rolling for it get criticized on here for being conformist. Don't they know that their students are rational adults and can do whatever they want during class? If they want to do a butterfly stretch instead of a collar choke, that's their right! They are paying customers!

The funny thing is, those hardass "conformist" gyms are pretty much the only environments in which you will hear the instructor say "Everyone just do whatever you want for 20 minutes" and it will actually be productive. Those are the only environments that cut through the bullshit enough that a dedicated student can actually develop an individual game.

 

[JohnSouth]

Only if you drill at a bad school. Our drilling is nothing like that. We typically choose what we work on, and are encouraged to focus on correcting weaknesses in our A games. At most we'll work on the position that is being taught in class that week, but the moves are up to us. Also, only a percentage of your drilling should be 0% resistance, I'd say we try to do about 40-50% no resistance, 20-30% some resistance, and the rest 100% positional sparring. Much more effective that way.

Yes that sounds better.

 

[JohnSouth]

lack of muscle memory is a pretty glaring weakness.

Don't worry, it will come.

 

[rmongler]

Don't worry, it will come.

thanks to drills.

 

[Rich959]

thanks to drills.

Not the kind of drilling he's encountered so far, based on his descriptions.

 

[Diode]

thanks to drills.

Stop engaging him. You know better.

 

[Uchi Mata]

This works best, I imagine, when your gym is full of guys who are actually invested in their own game.
I've been to open mat scenarios or tech classes that the instructor (usually someone filling in) has said "do what you want," and a majority of guys look around lost or hesitant to actually do whatever they want. Perhaps they fear correction, or I don't even know. Maybe that kind of instruction needs to come from the top more consistently, so it's not so unfamiliar and uncomfortable for some guys.
The other issue is in this environment, the few guys who do have something to drill, the lost belts orbit around them and either try to mimic them or outright request instruction. Now you have 2 or 3 de facto tech classes happening when it should be a drilling session, and the guys who actually had the conviction to drill something they knew in the first place are relegated to teaching for 2/3s of the time...

You have to be very invested in your own game. To get a lot of benefit out of self directed drilling over the long term, you need to have a very strong idea of what you want to get good at and what your weaknesses are (so you can fix them). This requires either very involved coaches who are constantly giving you feedback, or it requires you to self coach by watching your match films (you are competing and filming your matches, aren't you?), breaking down your game, and researching constantly to figure out things to work on. Most people aren't going to do much research or spend much time thinking about their games, so if they show up to drilling they basically can only drill stuff they already know. That can work well if your instructor follows a very structured curriculum (which mines does), but at a lot of places you'll end up with huge holes in your game even if you're drilling a lot.

 

[Vitamin C]

Most people aren't going to do much research or spend much time thinking about their games, so if they show up to drilling they basically can only drill stuff they already know. That can work well if your instructor follows a very structured curriculum (which mines does), but at a lot of places you'll end up with huge holes in your game even if you're drilling a lot.

You've basically described my gym. The few guys who compete often go alone or just together. Them and the few others who research further into BJJ are the only ones who direct their training and are actually invested in drilling time.

 

[Vitamin C]

This paradox is very true.

Gyms with a set of rules and instructors that smack down students for getting out of line run themselves. The gyms where everyone is a special little snowflake that gets handled with kid gloves turn into a zoo.

The only way for an instructor run a zoo is to have everyone do exactly the same thing all the time. So that is all that happens in the special snowflake schools. Good thing no one's feelings ever get hurt though.

Gyms where the instructor will snap at you for bullshitting during drilling time and then smash your face in rolling for it get criticized on here for being conformist. Don't they know that their students are rational adults and can do whatever they want during class? If they want to do a butterfly stretch instead of a collar choke, that's their right! They are paying customers!

The funny thing is, those hardass "conformist" gyms are pretty much the only environments in which you will hear the instructor say "Everyone just do whatever you want for 20 minutes" and it will actually be productive. Those are the only environments that cut through the bullshit enough that a dedicated student can actually develop an individual game.

Someday I'd like to know what it's like to train at a real gym.

 

[lechien]

Yo,

How would you guys rank bjj clubs? Like, how do you tell if one club is superior to the next? There seem to be a giant amount of clubs with rather accomplished mma fighters, and black belts seem to be a dime a dozen these days.

It just feels like there's a lot of parity amongst most clubs in midsized cities. Of course, the top clubs are going to be better. What are your thoughts?

Try a free class at each location and make your decision based on your experience.

Usually I suggest to train at the closest club unless the club are big douchebags.

 

[NewGuardBjj]

I dig the bullshit. Why? Hm, I guess I've always thought the laid back culture went hand in hand with BJJ. It's not like you can't bull shit and train hard. The two gyms I've been to had a healthy amount of bullshitting, I think. It wasn't a problem, just enough to keep things fun.

I guess this is in opposition to what you might want out of a "serious" gym, but, the way I see it, everything has its time and place.

You all have convinced me to sit in on a few classes before I make a choice between the two clubs in my area.

 

[Uchi Mata]

You've basically described my gym. The few guys who compete often go alone or just together. Them and the few others who research further into BJJ are the only ones who direct their training and are actually invested in drilling time.

For the record, most people at my gym don't come to the drilling sessions I run. Unless you're at a high level competition gym like Atos or Alliance, you're never going to have the majority of people spend that much time and energy trying to get better. But that's okay! You really only need one other dedicated person to drill with to get a lot better. If you have more great, you'll get exposed to more styles, but you get most of the benefit from having someone, anyone, to drill with. I made the most improvements in my game drilling primarily with a guy who was ~80 lbs lighter than me and not quite as good as I was. Didn't matter, I just need a hustling body, and we always worked really hard when we were on the mat together.

 

[JustTheTip]

Yo,

How would you guys rank bjj clubs? Like, how do you tell if one club is superior to the next? There seem to be a giant amount of clubs with rather accomplished mma fighters, and black belts seem to be a dime a dozen these days.

It just feels like there's a lot of parity amongst most clubs in midsized cities. Of course, the top clubs are going to be better. What are your thoughts?

First evaluate your goals in BJJ. Then look at which club has the most people that are in line with your goals, how long it took them to get there and if they did most of their BJJ journey at that school to get there.

ie- You want to be a good competitor.
Which school has the most competitive success?
How long did the competitors train to get to that level?
Did they train the bulk of their time at that school or were they already successful before they got there?

ie- You want to be highly technical and teach someday.
Which school seems to have spawned the most successful instructors?
How long did the students train before they were able to establish a successful school?
Did they progress through the belts at that school or just go there at Black Belt?

 

[deadlizard]

This paradox is very true.

Gyms with a set of rules and instructors that smack down students for getting out of line run themselves. The gyms where everyone is a special little snowflake that gets handled with kid gloves turn into a zoo.

The only way for an instructor run a zoo is to have everyone do exactly the same thing all the time. So that is all that happens in the special snowflake schools. Good thing no one's feelings ever get hurt though.

Gyms where the instructor will snap at you for bullshitting during drilling time and then smash your face in rolling for it get criticized on here for being conformist. Don't they know that their students are rational adults and can do whatever they want during class? If they want to do a butterfly stretch instead of a collar choke, that's their right! They are paying customers!

The funny thing is, those hardass "conformist" gyms are pretty much the only environments in which you will hear the instructor say "Everyone just do whatever you want for 20 minutes" and it will actually be productive. Those are the only environments that cut through the bullshit enough that a dedicated student can actually develop an individual game.

I like your style.

 

[yetanother]

Bro, berimbolo > closed guard.

Yes.
A lot world class grapplers don't use the closed guard for anything beside stalling.
To actually play a closed guard against anyone half decent you need loads of details and a bunch of complex movements. Just look how Roger or Braulio play their closed guards.
Berimbolo is a simpler and easier to get to.
And the old school attacks as commonly taught are cargo cult bullshit.

 

[nefti]

let's not forget the habitual drillers that drill every random technique they see online no matter if it fits their game or not.

 

[rmongler]

Stop engaging him. You know better.

Where I come from, trolling is how you say hello.

 

[No1 Stunna]

In general, if I can find out the instructor and his lineage, the average number of students in the class, and an idea of tournament success, I can get a good idea of how good the gym is.

One thing I appreciate is a decent amount of tenured students. You really hit the jackpot if you have a gym with many tenured students who are cool and will share technique. I can say from experience that Roberto Maia's Boston BJJ and Renzo's in NY are good examples of this, plenty of tough rolls with different skill levels and body types.