Tech Gaming Hardware discussion (& Hardware Sales) thread

[KaNesDeath]

Who said anything about your post being unacceptable? I responded to it. That's discussion. This is a discussion board, derp.

The point is this: who cares?

I do. Why i raised the question.

 

[Madmick]

I do. Why i raised the question.

Is it also important to you to compare GPU values to COVID pricing?

 

[KaNesDeath]

Is it also important to you to compare GPU values to COVID pricing?

Yes. We do such a thing in every other consumer product market. Its also important to expand it to pre-Covid pricing. With certain products going back even further to another event that caused a spike or decline in pricing/demand.

With GPU's the only other previous spike in demand was in 2013 caused by crypto miners. Which was mostly resolved after a month with no retail price increase.

 

[Madmick]

Yes. We do such a thing in every other consumer product market. Its also important to expand it to pre-Covid pricing. With certain products going back even further to another event that caused a spike or decline in pricing/demand.

With GPU's the only other previous spike in demand was in 2013 caused by crypto miners. Which was mostly resolved after a month with no retail price increase

Eggs don't double in processing power every 2 years. We gonna compare the framerate value offered by Voodoo cards, too?

 

[KaNesDeath]

Eggs don't double in processing power every 2 years. We gonna compare the framerate value offered by Voodoo cards, too?

With eggs we are coming out of flu season. While the federal government is completely backstopping all culling and investing in finding a vaccine.

GPU wise. Using a similar metric on a Voodoo card would be impractical. Standalone GPU's werent standardized yet. In a market whose consumer count was basically the worst out of all gaming platforms. It'll be similar to pricing storage at cost per gigabyte when Sata SSD's hit the market.

 

[Madmick]

GPU wise. Using a similar metric on a Voodoo card would be impractical.

It's pointless now, too, except to establish that the GPU market is dour. Thus the Titanic headline, derp. Which is why nobody cares.

As usual, you can't even follow the thread of thought you yourself introduced.

 

[KaNesDeath]

As usual, you can't even follow the thread of thought you yourself introduced.

It was a point that i hoped you'd continue on. For taking the pricing snapshot of a new product and technology at release is only beneficial when said product maintains production.

 

[Madmick]

It was a point that i hoped you'd continue on. For taking the pricing snapshot of a new product and technology at release is only beneficial when said product maintains production.

Why are you trying to save face over all the stupid shit you've posted since the launch of the RX 9070 XT? Just step away from the keyboard.

 

[KaNesDeath]

Why are you trying to save face over all the stupid shit you've posted since the launch of the RX 9070 XT? Just step away from the keyboard.

Now that we're approaching two weeks after launch. My initial reaction after the review embargo was quite spot on in performance and target customer. Price gouging concerns at the retail level came on launch day. Gamers Nexus and now Hardware Unboxed did the legwork proving most of those points. So much so even the softball reviewer Linus from LTT had to acknowledge it in passing on WAN Show.


When Gamers Nexus says:

AMD continually riles up and plays into this tribalistic mentality of pitting fans of two companies against each other. But then we think its using Nvidia as a shield to do the same shit!

Or Hardware Unboxed says:

Overall when attempting to assess the graphics card market based on real prices. Things are looking pretty dire right now whether we look at the United States, Australia or Germany. The typical price of listed models makes new generation graphics cards worse value than previous generation cards. Of course in most situations you can't buy either current or previous gen models right now. But looking at prices for pretty basic aib cards and comparing that to what GPU prices looked like just 6 months ago. Buyers are getting screwed.

Are they trolls and or Nvidia fanboys?

 

[Madmick]

Now that we're approaching two weeks after launch. My initial reaction after the review embargo was quite spot on in performance

"Mid tier NVIDIA 3000"

and target customer.

"entry level"

 

[Madmick]

PC gamers spend 92% of their time on older games, oh and there are apparently 908 million of us now​

The results are extrapolated from a yearly in-depth survey of 73,000 players, alongside data from over 10,000 games. From this Newzoo says that the PC market is growing at a steady rate with an estimated...907.5 million players in 2024.

I know you'll all like this one: that handily beats out the console audience, of whom there were an estimated 653.1 million in 2024.

And the data further shows, in Newzoo's own words, that these 908 million "PC players are heavily skewed towards older, live service games."

The data shows that from January 2024 to December 2024, 67% of player hours on PC were spent on a game that was six or more years old. A further 25% of player hours were spent on games that were two to five years old, and the remaining 8% of time was spent on games that are less than two years old.

Newzoo's data further breaks down that 67% chunk. Within this:

• 7.1% of the total hours spent were on Counter-Strike: Global Offensive / Counter-Strike 2
• 6.4% were in League of Legends
• 6.2% were in Roblox
• 5.8% were in Dota 2
• 5.4% were in Fortnite

PC players are overwhelmingly spending their time on older games: 92% of our time goes into games that are more than two years old.

 

[KaNesDeath]

"Mid tier NVIDIA 3000"

"entry level"

Few days ago someone uploaded Doom Eternal at 8K resolution. With RTX on, max graphical settings and top end hardware. It averaged 89 frames per second. 9070XT across six games with the same CPU at 2K resolution averaged 68 frames. At 4K that average went down to 38 frames.

People need to stop basing their performance criteria on console ports. Target frames per second metric they must meet is drastically different. Pc gamers at such low frames need to worry about screen tearing and input delay. So yeah, its entry level today and mid tier from the 3000 series.

 

[Madmick]

Few days ago someone uploaded Doom Eternal at 8K resolution. With RTX on, max graphical settings and top end hardware. It averaged 89 frames per second. 9070XT across six games with the same CPU at 2K resolution averaged 68 frames. At 4K that average went down to 38 frames.

"With RTX on"? What the hell does that mean? RTX is an exclusive NVIDIA feature set. That includes DLSS: their proprietary version of upscaling. So did your NVIDIA fanboy video compare AMD to NVIDIA without turning on FSR for the AMD card? Link it.

Because here is the general baseline performance of the cards in DOOM Eternal with ray-tracing on at 4K. Same story as overall performance. Neck and neck with the +$150 MSRP (+$100 real-price as of this post) RTX 5070 Ti. NVIDIA getting humiliated.

LOL at trying to throw this at me when I was the guy losing my shit over the dazzle of DLSS4 during the RTX 50 series launch when everyone was negging the shit out of them due to old school rasterization pricing evaluations. The thing is...FSR4 hit and it's also goddamn impressive. Sure, it's not DLSS4, it's more like DLSS 3.5, but it's a massive improvement, and entirely open-source. It also has the weight of Sony behind it. That's what makes the PS5 Pro the most attractive of all. It will run the latest FSR. This is what's going to keep it more relevant than the Xbox One X and PS4 Pro from last generation. Cerny is actively working in concert with AMD to help it keep pace with DLSS. Best analysis since both DLSS4 and FSR4 dropped:

AMD FSR 4 is Very Impressive: 1440p Upscaling Tested: FSR 4 vs. DLSS 4​

People need to stop basing their performance criteria on console ports. Target frames per second metric they must meet is drastically different. Pc gamers at such low frames need to worry about screen tearing and input delay. So yeah, its entry level today and mid tier from the 3000 series.

"Screen tearing". 2018 called, nearly universal Freesync support is a thing.

Everything else, including 0.1% lows, frametime latencies, VRR latencies, and input delays is consistent with the fps averages most commonly quoted to compare the cards. There is nothing redeeming the NVIDIA's RTX 50 series against AMD RX 9000 series besides DLSS4's slight general advantage over FSR4, and more meaningfully, by the library of games that are actually supported, but even the last part is countered by the ability to manually inject FSR4 support into almost any game.

 

[My Spot]

MC here has an open box 7800X3D for $357. I wonder if any collectors would want my 7600X3D...

 

[KaNesDeath]

MC here has an open box 7800X3D for $357.

My suggestion is just spend the extra $100 an get a new 9800X3D. Locally you can probably sell the 7600X3D on like Facebook Marketplace for around $200.

 

[KaNesDeath]

PC gamers spend 92% of their time on older games, oh and there are apparently 908 million of us now​

This is the second marketing breakdown ive seen that has put CS2 above League of Legends in Pc gaming. Other one excluded the eastern market from their calculation and had League of Legends ranked 7th with CS2 3rd.

Something is off with how they are extrapolating these figures. Seem to be placing to much emphasis on social media presence pertaining to specific games.

 

[KaNesDeath]

LOL at trying to throw this at me when I was the guy losing my shit over the dazzle of DLSS4 during the RTX 50 series launch when everyone was negging the shit out of them due to old school rasterization pricing evaluations

And what part did i play in that timeline of events?

 

[Blayt7hh]

AMD now having the game performance lead.

Bit of an understatement. They gained parity around the 3000 Ryzen chips I believe and by the 5k series they summarily passed intel. This is the third generation of chips they’ve had that just dominated the competition.

With 9700xt I really don’t understand how you can call it entry level and compare it to a 3050. It’s clearly in the upper end of cards. There’s no point in making a value judgement as all the new cards are being scalped for ludicrous prices. Your hatred for AMD is really just kind of strange.

 

[Slobodan]

But if an understatement. They gained parity around the 3000 Ryzen chips I believe and by the 5k series they summarily passed intel. This is the third generation of chips they’ve had that just dominated the competition.

With 9700xt I really don’t understand how you can call it entry level and compare it to a 3050. It’s clearly in the upper end of cards. There’s no point in making a value judgement as all the new cards are being scalped for ludicrous prices. Your hatred for AMD is really just kind of strange.

3000 series had comparable IPC to Intel, just didn't have the clocks to surpass them. But yeah that was the turning point. 5000 series solidified and passed Intel for the first time in like 10+ years.

 

[KaNesDeath]

Bit of an understatement. They gained parity around the 3000 Ryzen chips I believe and by the 5k series they summarily passed intel.

3700X was a great value CPU. But Intel still had the game performance lead over that series. 5000 release AMD priced them like they were matching Intels performance for launch. Yet Intel still had the lead through raw clock speed. Dropping 5000's price by 25% three months after launch(was supposed to be the last CPU launch on AM4 socket). Wasnt really till the 5800X3D release that things got competitive. For the 5800X3D was matching Intel while being 700mhz slower.

7800X3D release was a mess. Had the typical new launch AMD Bios problems. While the CPU wasnt working correctly with Windows Scheduler. Took till September of 2023 for AMD to resolve most of it. However it didnt really start selling till the end of 2024's first quarter. AMD(again) reduced its retail price by 25% in the fourth quarter of 2023. Windows update that came September of 2024 resolved all remaining issues. AMD being the defacto premiere gaming CPU maker emphatically entered the public lexicon around February/March of 2024.

3050 is a entry level for the 3000 series Nvidia GPU line. Im not comparing it to a 9070XT. For my general usage the 9070XT slots in around the 3080. *Nvidia had four more higher version sku's in the 3000 series. Then we had the whole 4000 series sku launch debacle that Nvidia are echoing worse now in the 5000 series. Current X070 being spec'd like it previous series X060. For the emphasis of upselling users on their X080 card at $1,000+.