Tech Gaming Hardware discussion (& Hardware Sales) thread

[KaNesDeath]

Bunch of baloney.

Most used GPU on Steam is the 4060. Which is comparable to the 3060 and Intel Arc A750. These are garbage cards.

 

[KaNesDeath]

GPU margins suck bad if you arent amd or Nvidia. Is what it is unfortunately.

Pc gamers are supposed to be the industries arbiters of innovation and its bullshit detector. And all i see is placation.

 

[jefferz]

You understand i just bought a $800 monitor a few months back. Headphones i use still cost $300+ that replaced $200 headphones from 2005. $200 full tower case i bought in 2018 replaced the $200 full tower case i bought back in 2003. $300 fully modular 1000w PSU in 2018 replaced my 400w non-modular Antec from 2008. Five 140mm case fans i have are server grade quality that operate at 160cfm that cost $40 each. All while the CPU heatsink i use is $50.

Common mistake Pc gamers make is spending money incorrectly on their system. With main component hardware that has a short usage life of ~3 years. Things like the CPU, RAM, motherboard, GPU and CPU heatsink.

1080ti i bought in 2017 retailed back then to what a 9070XT retails for me today and 5070ti's MSRP. While the CPU retail market has stayed the same since the 2000's.

Ive been doing this for 26 years. Nothing, absolutely nothing in the GPU market has value.

Good for you, I guess. This has nothing to do with the topic.

If you think most people replace hardware every 3 years, you're delusional.

The $699 you paid for your 1080ti in 2017 is $910 today when adjusted for inflation. So no, they're not the same price.
The i7-920 was released at $284 in 2008, $422 when adjusted for inflation. The 14900k released at $409 in 2023, $430 adjusted for inflation.

 

[Madmick]

Common mistake Pc gamers make is spending money incorrectly on their system. With main component hardware that has a short usage life of ~3 years. Things like the CPU, RAM, motherboard, GPU and CPU heatsink.

1080ti i bought in 2017 retailed back then to what a 9070XT retails for me today and 5070ti's MSRP. While the CPU retail market has stayed the same since the 2000's.

Most used GPU on Steam is the 4060. Which is comparable to the 3060 and Intel Arc A750. These are garbage cards.

The 4060 is analogous to the GPU in the PS5 and Xbox Series X.

But which is it? Do PC owners spend too much on GPUs when that "main component" has a short 3-year life span, or are the GPUs they buy cheap "garbage"? You're contradicting yourself.

Because nobody is persuaded by cherry picking the 1080 Ti: the card with the greatest longevity in the GPU series with the strongest dollar value of all time. Major outlier. Yet even against the mighty 1080 Ti the prudence of purchasing inside the peak-value curve is illuminated. Sure, buying the $699 1080 Ti in early 2017 was a great option. However, another option would have been to buy the GTX 1060 6B or RX 580 8GB for $229, and then get the RTX 3070 roughly three years later. You spend the same amount of money. You sacrifice performance for the first three years, but ultimately net a greater performance in the long run. And since we aren't factoring in resale of the original GPU, you now have two GPUs (to run two computers if you could use it).

We've discussed this many times in the past. If one maps the sustained performance-value of faster aging hardware, it makes the most sense to spend in the middle, for peak value, and upgrade more frequently.

 

[WhiteMousse]

We just went over this. No, tariffs played zero role in the sudden inflation of prices GPU in the last several months including the final quarter of last year. However, yes, retailers (like Best Buy and Target) have already said they expect tariffs will cause an increase to GPU prices in the future because Trump's new tariffs are already going into effect.

Finally, AMD is not the one increasing prices, nor are they choking supply. Demand is so rapidly outpacing supply because the RX 9070 XT is so awesome that AMD's board partners (ex. ASUS, Gigabyte, Sapphire, XFX) believe they can raise the prices on their products in spite of the fact AMD actually supplied them with a healthy stock unlike NVIDIA with its bullshit paper launch. That's in the article you linked, LOL:

The bad news is GPU buyers are going to suffer a double-whammy. Those board partners (the GPU makers) are going to increase their prices thanks to the supply-and-demand effect, but the GPU retailers are going to have to pass on a tariff surcharge to the customer, too.

Nevertheless, consider this in contrast to NVIDIA who became so greedy by eating into their board partner's ability to make a profit that they effectively drove EVGA, one of the most esteemed and popular GPU makers, out of the business.

Back in 2011 I had the EVGA GTX 580. Loved that thing. Loved it.

Is NVidia really strangling supply? I guess I just don't get it. Wouldn't they want to sell more, sooner?

 

[avenue94]

Pc gamers are supposed to be the industries arbiters of innovation and its bullshit detector. And all i see is placation.

Gamers may be more knowledgeable than average but they are also the least price sensitive and lowest volume chunk of the PC market.

As for GPU margins sucking, that's on Nvidia and AMD mostly. AMD already gave its board partners a break this time with no reference models.

Is NVidia really strangling supply? I guess I just don't get it. Wouldn't they want to sell more, sooner?

They aren't strangling supply. They messed up Blackwell datacenter and had to redirect resources there, so Blackwell consumer ended up about a quarter late (which then runs into CNY shutdowns). You can't just increase allocation from TSMC on a whim.

 

[Madmick]

Is NVidia really strangling supply? I guess I just don't get it. Wouldn't they want to sell more, sooner?

Of their older, lower margin GPUs? Of course not. They want to force consumers to buy GPUs with a higher margin. They've grown arrogant enough to believe they can impose this.

PC Gamer: Nvidia has reportedly killed production of all RTX 40 GPUs apart from the 4050 and 4060 as affordable 50-series GPUs could arrive earlier than expected (Nov-2024)​

Indeed, production got killed. On the other hand, tell me, is the RTX 50 series "affordable"? LOL.

There's also been rumors swirling like this:

NVIDIA Is Reportedly Suppressing Inventory Levels For High-End RTX 50 Series GPUs, As a Move To “Market” Its SKUs (Feb-2025)​

NVIDIA is now reported to have "artificially" suppressed inventory levels in the retail segment, as a move to market its RTX 50 GPUs, by giving the impression that they are in hot-demand.

Meanwhile, compare the above to AMD's proactive public response.

AMD Questions Reported/Predicted Elevation of Radeon RX 9070 Series MSRPs​

VideoCardz has highlighted a disgruntled customer's experience with Ebuyer UK. Bran180s—a Radeon subreddit member—managed to snag a baseline MSRP conformant Sapphire PULSE RX 9070 XT model for the ideal launch price (£569.99, including VAT), but the webstore reneged this transaction.

A screenshot was uploaded to Reddit, alongside a short story: "was on the website ready for the launch of the RX 9070 XT, got one straight away and paid no issues. Ebuyer emailed me today to cancel, and now the price is £150 more." The British e-tailer has issued apologies, following the absorption of online criticism (see relevant screenshot below). The "normal price" of Sapphire's basic Pulse card was eventually adjusted to a mere £664.98, but Ebuyer has de-listed this SKU (at the time of writing). Other UK webshops—Scan, AWD-IT, CCL, Box etc.—have similarly implemented price hikes across low, mid and premium card tiers.

Australia's Hardware Unboxed managed to extract an official response from AMD—their social media post quoted Frank Azor. The Team Red exec indicated that his team is ready to intervene: "it is inaccurate that $549/$599 MSRP is launch-only pricing. We expect cards to be available from multiple vendors at $549/$599 (excluding region specific tariffs and/or taxes) based on the work we have done with our AIB partners, and more are coming. At the same time, the AIBs have different premium configurations at higher price points and those will also continue."

Observe the market realities you've witnessed in the past six months. Decide for yourself what the most credible explanation is.

 

[KaNesDeath]

If you think most people replace hardware every 3 years, you're delusional.

Its a expectation if playing newly released and or modern live service games. A console generation that lasts around ~7 years. Do this every ~4 years with a upgraded CPU/GPU console version.

Since you are a RS6 player. Im guessing you played since its December 2015 release. How many CPU's have you used over these past nine years? For me its four; 5820K, 3700X, 5800X and 14900K.

 

[avenue94]

There's also been rumors swirling like this:

NVIDIA Is Reportedly Suppressing Inventory Levels For High-End RTX 50 Series GPUs, As a Move To “Market” Its SKUs (Feb-2025)​

This is so silly. Who is scarcity marketing even aimed at? Nvidia mostly sells to channel partners, who know how much sell in and sell out there is.

What consumer who is looking to pick up a new card is going to see an out of stock option and be like, now I really want to buy a card even more?

Or even better, why would you push more of your stock post-tariff and risk having to absorb some into your margins or see falling demand due to a potential recession.?

 

[KaNesDeath]

Gamers may be more knowledgeable than average but they are also the least price sensitive and lowest volume chunk of the PC market.

I'd say in majority, Pc specs of Pc gamers are heavily driven by price sensitive hardware. Standardization of main/peripheral components like 2x16gigs of ram, LCD monitors, 60+hz monitors, USB headsets, SSD usage and so on can be directly correlated to their price.

 

[avenue94]

I'd say in majority, Pc specs of Pc gamers are heavily driven by price sensitive hardware. Standardization of main/peripheral components like 2x16gigs of ram, LCD monitors, 60+hz monitors, USB headsets, SSD usage and so on can be directly correlated to their price.

Sure, once you get into more specific choices, budget reigns. But as a long term trend, gamers are much less price sensitive than nearly any other PC market segment. Do you know any that are less price conscious?

 

[KaNesDeath]

Do you know any that are less price conscious?

Smartphone fanboys, digital graphical artists, video editors and so on.

This is an exceptionally nuanced percentage of individual markets topic. I get what your saying though : )

 

[avenue94]

Smartphone fanboys, digital graphical artists, video editors and so on.

This is an exceptionally nuanced percentage of individual markets topic. I get what your saying though : )

I meant in the PC market. There's no point in comparing PCs and smartphones when the latter has an OEM margin about 2 or 3 times as large (it gets wonky once you factor in carrier subsidies).

The other roles you mentioned are usually commercial channel, which is sort of less price sensitive but it's apples and oranges.

I'm more speaking to comparing consumer segments, so gaming against non-gaming desktops, notebooks, chrome, etc.

 

[KaNesDeath]

Also, anyone using $40 case fans is gonna have a tough time selling wise PC investment to me. There has been quality PWM 120mm fans with hydraulic bearings from reputable companies like Arctic for $7-$10 a piece for a decade,

I took this approach in the 2010's. Phasing out my decade old six molex 80mm fans that operated at a constant 90cfm and 60dba. 80% of them had a bearing failure within ~2.5 years.

 

[KaNesDeath]

I'm more speaking to comparing consumer segments, so gaming against non-gaming desktops, notebooks, chrome, etc.

I understood what you were insinuating : )

The Pc market is predominately work flow related. Pc gaming consumers is a minority share of that. Individuals within the Pc market that go high end Pc hardware for gaming is probably single digit percentile in the overall Pc market.

 

[avenue94]

I understood what you were insinuating : )

The Pc market is predominately work flow related. Pc gaming consumers is a minority share of that. Individuals within the Pc market that go high end Pc hardware for gaming is probably single digit percentile in the overall Pc market.

It's not that bad for the consumer PC channels (as in individual purchases). CyberPower does roughly half the revenue that HP does in sell-out and is neck and neck with Dell these days. iBuyPower isn't that far behind. And that's before you even get to notebooks. Yeah, commercial SKUs it but I don't work that part and most people will never encounter it, so I tend not to think about it that much.

GPU margins suck, but gaming desktop margins are still better than non-gaming.

As for high end, if we're talking -80 and -90, it's about 10% of prebuilds, and almost all of that is -80 tier. That's why I described discontinuing production of those last year for RTX 40 as irrelevant in the grand scheme. If you factor in commercial, then yeah -80 and -90 tier go to like low singles.

 

[jefferz]

Bunch of baloney. That's observable from the Steam Survey just shown to you.

• The most used GPUs are all models in the $150-$400 range, and always have been.
• The bestselling CPUs (as you can see on Amazon review totals or via Newegg bestseller sorting) are almost entirely in the $150-$250 range.
• The bestselling RAM kits are always the best values at any given time, and if a premium is paid, it's for shit like RGB lighting that has nothing to do with bang-for-your-buck strategies.
• The bestselling motherboards are always models in the $100-$200 range.
• Bestselling heatsinks are always air coolers in the ~$30 range. The hunk of metal will last almost interminably. The point of failure is the fans, and those are replaceable.

So, in fact, PC builders are very rational when it comes to value.

Also, anyone using $40 case fans is gonna have a tough time selling wise PC investment to me. There has been quality PWM 120mm fans with hydraulic bearings from reputable companies like Arctic for $7-$10 a piece for a decade, and even server fans don't have a service life that is anywhere close to 4x-6x as great.

Arctic F12's used fluid dynamic bearings, but your point still stands. I have F12's that have been spinning non-stop since December 2015 in my server.

Its a expectation if playing newly released and or modern live service games. A console generation that lasts around ~7 years. Do this every ~4 years with a upgraded CPU/GPU console version.

Since you are a RS6 player. Im guessing you played since its December 2015 release. How many CPU's have you used over these past nine years? For me its four; 5820K, 3700X, 5800X and 14900K.

Yeah, we're pc part nerds. We upgrade much more often than the average person. Not everyone needs/wants the top of the line stuff all the time. Most games aren't pc part nerds, and they just want stuff that works.
I play cs2 with people that use hardware you'd consider not good enough, but for them, it's fine. We're talking 9th gen i5's, gtx960's, etc.
Here's a video of a 3570 and 960 doing maintaining at least 100fps on low settings. That's good enough for a lot of people.

 

[Madmick]

Arctic F12's used fluid dynamic bearings, but your point still stands. I have F12's that have been spinning non-stop since December 2015 in my server.

Yes, I meant to say hydro dynamic bearing which was the old interchangeable term for fluid dynamic.

 

[Blayt7hh]

Back in 2011 I had the EVGA GTX 580. Loved that thing. Loved it.

Is NVidia really strangling supply? I guess I just don't get it. Wouldn't they want to sell more, sooner?

They could sell more but the way they’re doing it is the best way for them to maximize profits. Profit maximization for a monopoly is not where supply meets demand, but rather where marginal revenue = marginal cost. The strange behavior we are seeing is a result of their being no practical competition

 

[KaNesDeath]

They could sell more but the way they’re doing it is the best way for them to maximize profits.

Look at post #6,999 in this thread. What Nvidia are doing is a lot more nefarious.